Locking Tag Axle Tire
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06-09-2005, 10:04
Post: #11
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Locking Tag Axle Tire
hehheeee! whatever you say tom! randydupree93wb
----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Warner To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 3:56 PM Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Locking Tag Axle Tire Randy unless the law of physics has changed since I retired 10 years ago a difference in 1/4" air line lengths of a few feet will not make a difference in the force that the brake chamber applies to the slack adjuster.. I would suspect that if one tire is locking up then I would suspect contaminated brake shoes on that axel or a misadjusted slack adjuster. Tom 1982 FC35 Vernon Center,NY At 12:02 PM 6/9/2005 -0400, you wrote: >check to make sure that both air lines are the same length.if one has been >replaced it may be shorter or longer.it does matter..Tom? randydupree93wb > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Rex > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 11:38 AM > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Locking Tag Axle Tire > > > First post reading for years. Have had a tag axle, drivers side, > that locks on hard braking. Many corrective actions taken. Started > by replacing leaking oil seal and brakes that wheel. Adjusted slack > adjusters myself and also local truck shop. At Bennie??? > recommendation at Bluebird hooked up guages to each line going to > each tag axle wheel. Thought had found problem approximately 10# > difference, BUT switched gauges and found that the guages had a 10# > difference. Guages actually show air pressures to each side very > close. Truck mechanic thinks it could be warped brake drum, but > it has not been noticed when other repairs made. Before taking off > wheel and drum again, I though that I would seek help from past > experiences on forum. > > Rex Puckett > 85PT36 > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Yahoo! Groups Links > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WanderlodgeForum/ > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > WanderlodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WanderlodgeForum/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: WanderlodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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06-09-2005, 10:48
Post: #12
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Locking Tag Axle Tire
on our way to the rally here in sanger, we saw an eagle with the tag in
front of the drivers. what age would this coach be? ernie-83pt40 in texas [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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06-09-2005, 10:50
Post: #13
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Locking Tag Axle Tire
-Hi All
Just a thought, on Eagle buses if the suspension system is loading the tag axle too lightly the light wheel will lock up all the time. Could your leveling valve be loading that wheel too lightly? Dick & Carolyn Sevey 83fc 33 Pahrump, Nv. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Tom Warner > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 3:56 PM > Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Locking Tag Axle Tire > > > Randy unless the law of physics has changed since I retired 10 years ago a > difference in 1/4" air line lengths of a few feet will not make a > difference in the force that the brake chamber applies to the slack > adjuster.. I would suspect that if one tire is locking up then I would > suspect contaminated brake shoes on that axel or a misadjusted slack adjuster. > > Tom > 1982 FC35 > Vernon Center,NY > > At 12:02 PM 6/9/2005 -0400, you wrote: > >check to make sure that both air lines are the same length.if one has been > >replaced it may be shorter or longer.it does matter..Tom? randydupree93wb > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Rex > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 11:38 AM > > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Locking Tag Axle Tire > > > > > > First post reading for years. Have had a tag axle, drivers side, > > that locks on hard braking. Many corrective actions taken. Started > > by replacing leaking oil seal and brakes that wheel. Adjusted slack > > adjusters myself and also local truck shop. At Bennie??? > > recommendation at Bluebird hooked up guages to each line going to > > each tag axle wheel. Thought had found problem approximately 10# > > difference, BUT switched gauges and found that the guages had a 10# > > difference. Guages actually show air pressures to each side very > > close. Truck mechanic thinks it could be warped brake drum, but > > it has not been noticed when other repairs made. Before taking off > > wheel and drum again, I though that I would seek help from past > > experiences on forum. > > > > Rex Puckett > > 85PT36 > > > > > > > > > > > >---------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WanderlodgeForum/ > > > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > WanderlodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------- > Yahoo! Groups Links > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WanderlodgeForum/ > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > WanderlodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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06-09-2005, 11:33
Post: #14
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Locking Tag Axle Tire
Say guys,,, would this be ok for you?? I can see the letters, and
still use lower case for you !! One question,, where does the brake "air pulse" start? at the brake pedal? Or does that control another brake control system that sends out the compressed air? Seems the rear brakes get their air from the rear air tanks, and the front from the front ones. Does it go all the way to the front pedal, and then back to the rear wheels?? I have never thought about how that works. Might be something good to know,,, DAY JAX FLA 83 PT-40 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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06-09-2005, 13:05
Post: #15
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Locking Tag Axle Tire
That's funny Randy, you knew he'd bite didn't you?
The laws of physics haven't changed Tom, you've obviously just never understood them. The length of air-line doesn't affect ultimate pressure, but it does affect timing which is important in air-brake design. If one brake is supplied pressure before another brake you can get pulling or lockup. As far as one brake locking without the other, several factors can cause asymmetrical braking and traction: Check shock absorbers and suspension links, a binding or broken link can cause asymmetrical downforce and thus traction. A pinched air-bag supply line can cause the pressure to vary between air-bags, a SEVERELY out-of-level condition can cause asymmetrical pressure/traction, brake supply lines can affect braking and cause asymmetrical brake pressure, possibly even a restriction in the tag- axle's R-12 brake relay valve. Mechanical brake problems can cause asymmetrical braking as one brake might have a bad cam or rollers, contaminated brake shoes or incorrect friction material (FF is original, softer can cause locking), incorrectly installed (wrong angle) slack adjusters. Coach loading shouldn't affect tag-axle braking as the tag-axle airbags are tied together and supplied by/at the same pressure, same pressure between airbags will mean same downforce/weight on both sides (or very close). Coach loading affects the side-side weight of the drive axle mostly. If betting, I'd start with: contaminated brakes, wrong brake friction material, incorrectly adjusted or assembled slack adjuster, suspension problem, and move on if those are not the problems. An air pressure gauge comparing brake application pressure between the two sides might also be an interesting test. - Jeff Miller --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner wrote: > Randy unless the law of physics has changed since I retired 10 years ago a > difference in 1/4" air line lengths of a few feet will not make a > difference in the force that the brake chamber applies to the slack > adjuster.. I would suspect that if one tire is locking up then I would > suspect contaminated brake shoes on that axel or a misadjusted slack adjuster. > > Tom > 1982 FC35 > Vernon Center,NY > > At 12:02 PM 6/9/2005 -0400, you wrote: > >check to make sure that both air lines are the same length.if one has been > >replaced it may be shorter or longer.it does matter..Tom? randydupree93wb |
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06-09-2005, 13:16
Post: #16
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Locking Tag Axle Tire
Although a thoughtful response, apples to oranges. Eagles don't have
airbag suspension, they are torsion bar, therefore asymmetrical tag- axle pressures are more likely to cause this problem. - Jeff Miller --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Sevey & Carolyn Sevey" > -Hi All > Just a thought, on Eagle buses if the suspension system is loading > the tag axle too lightly the light wheel will lock up all the time. > Could your leveling valve be loading that wheel too lightly? > Dick & Carolyn Sevey 83fc 33 Pahrump, Nv. |
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06-09-2005, 13:32
Post: #17
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Locking Tag Axle Tire
its all about timing jeff! uneven length hoses can cause a brake to pull.
hydraulic brakes can have unequal length lines with no problem..but have you ever noticed on a 3208 diesel engine the injector lines are all bent and twisted and seem too long? they are realy equal length,all 8 lines the same,thats so the timing is right on all cyl's..but,you know all that stuff already! randydupree93wb ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeff Miller To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 9:05 PM Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Locking Tag Axle Tire That's funny Randy, you knew he'd bite didn't you? The laws of physics haven't changed Tom, you've obviously just never understood them. The length of air-line doesn't affect ultimate pressure, but it does affect timing which is important in air-brake design. If one brake is supplied pressure before another brake you can get pulling or lockup. As far as one brake locking without the other, several factors can cause asymmetrical braking and traction: Check shock absorbers and suspension links, a binding or broken link can cause asymmetrical downforce and thus traction. A pinched air-bag supply line can cause the pressure to vary between air-bags, a SEVERELY out-of-level condition can cause asymmetrical pressure/traction, brake supply lines can affect braking and cause asymmetrical brake pressure, possibly even a restriction in the tag- axle's R-12 brake relay valve. Mechanical brake problems can cause asymmetrical braking as one brake might have a bad cam or rollers, contaminated brake shoes or incorrect friction material (FF is original, softer can cause locking), incorrectly installed (wrong angle) slack adjusters. Coach loading shouldn't affect tag-axle braking as the tag-axle airbags are tied together and supplied by/at the same pressure, same pressure between airbags will mean same downforce/weight on both sides (or very close). Coach loading affects the side-side weight of the drive axle mostly. If betting, I'd start with: contaminated brakes, wrong brake friction material, incorrectly adjusted or assembled slack adjuster, suspension problem, and move on if those are not the problems. An air pressure gauge comparing brake application pressure between the two sides might also be an interesting test. - Jeff Miller --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner wrote: > Randy unless the law of physics has changed since I retired 10 years ago a > difference in 1/4" air line lengths of a few feet will not make a > difference in the force that the brake chamber applies to the slack > adjuster.. I would suspect that if one tire is locking up then I would > suspect contaminated brake shoes on that axel or a misadjusted slack adjuster. > > Tom > 1982 FC35 > Vernon Center,NY > > At 12:02 PM 6/9/2005 -0400, you wrote: > >check to make sure that both air lines are the same length.if one has been > >replaced it may be shorter or longer.it does matter..Tom? randydupree93wb ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WanderlodgeForum/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: WanderlodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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06-09-2005, 13:40
Post: #18
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Locking Tag Axle Tire
and another bit of trivia for you.a extra axle behind the drive axle is a tag
axle,when the extra axle is in front of the drive axle its called a boogie axle.only the very newest eagles have a tag axle,and i think they went to air ride also,at the very end of production..randydupree93wb ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeff Miller To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 9:16 PM Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Locking Tag Axle Tire Although a thoughtful response, apples to oranges. Eagles don't have airbag suspension, they are torsion bar, therefore asymmetrical tag- axle pressures are more likely to cause this problem. - Jeff Miller --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Sevey & Carolyn Sevey" > -Hi All > Just a thought, on Eagle buses if the suspension system is loading > the tag axle too lightly the light wheel will lock up all the time. > Could your leveling valve be loading that wheel too lightly? > Dick & Carolyn Sevey 83fc 33 Pahrump, Nv. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WanderlodgeForum/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: WanderlodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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06-09-2005, 13:51
Post: #19
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Locking Tag Axle Tire
Yeah port-effect on the 3208 sure leads to equal-length fuel lines.
Do you think that common-rail injection makes it a bit simpler? - Jeff Miller --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, randydupree > its all about timing jeff! uneven length hoses can cause a brake to pull. hydraulic brakes can have unequal length lines with no problem..but have you ever noticed on a 3208 diesel engine the injector lines are all bent and twisted and seem too long? they are realy equal length,all 8 lines the same,thats so the timing is right on all cyl's..but,you know all that stuff already! randydupree93wb |
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06-09-2005, 13:54
Post: #20
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Locking Tag Axle Tire
Telling the Eagle 10 from the Eagle 15 made easy eh Randy? The bogie
wheels in front of the drive look so , ... different? I was always amused by the 96" front cap on the 102" wide Eagle 10 also. Still, a really nice-riding bus, if you can find one that isn't rusty and source the parts (after Eagle went "out of business" twice, ...). - Jeff Miller --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, randydupree wrote: > and another bit of trivia for you.a extra axle behind the drive axle is a tag axle,when the extra axle is in front of the drive axle its called a boogie axle.only the very newest eagles have a tag axle,and i think they went to air ride also,at the very end of production..randydupree93wb > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jeff Miller > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 9:16 PM > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Locking Tag Axle Tire > > > Although a thoughtful response, apples to oranges. Eagles don't have > airbag suspension, they are torsion bar, therefore asymmetrical tag- > axle pressures are more likely to cause this problem. > > - Jeff Miller > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Sevey & Carolyn > Sevey" > > -Hi All > > Just a thought, on Eagle buses if the suspension system is loading > > the tag axle too lightly the light wheel will lock up all the time. > > Could your leveling valve be loading that wheel too lightly? > > Dick & Carolyn Sevey 83fc 33 Pahrump, Nv. > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- > Yahoo! Groups Links > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WanderlodgeForum/ > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > WanderlodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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