EMS 50C
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03-26-2007, 03:28
Post: #31
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EMS 50C
I guess everyone can make their own decisions based on the data at hand. I'll
keep the portable since I have had excellent results using it and I will not have to be concerned with the buzzing noise others complain about or the potential of compromising factory wiring. If a power surge takes it out, I'll pull it out of the pedestal, and repair it or replace it. The less maintenance I have to perform inside the bus, the better I personally like it. Thanks as always for the input. It is good to read everyone's opinion and conclusions gleaned from the same data. Leroy Eckert 1990 WB-40"Smoke N Mirrors" Niceville, FL ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Hayden To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 10:34 PM Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: EMS 50C As you said Leroy "With all due respect" then "however", I have had the generator fail me and take out a new tv. Ernie had his plug fail and took out a bunch of stuff for him just awhile back. In my case it ain't broke now and I don't want it to become broke. Been there, done that. Good luck. Dick Hayden - '87 PT 38 - Lake Stevens, WA ----- Original Message ----- From: Leroy Eckert To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 7:03 PM Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: EMS 50C With all due respect, your input may be absolutely true. However, I purchased my Surge Protector (that is how it was sold) for one reason only. To protect against irregular park power, nothing more, nothing less. . I would not expect it to inspect my power cord for defects or tell me when my transfer switch is taking a &^%$. I do that. Of course, I cannot see the connections at the transfer switch. If I want to start my genset, and I do so twice monthly when plugged into shore power, I turn off the pedestal breaker and pull the plug. I do not need to know anything about frequency or depend on an instrument to do it for me. That is all I am saying. I have been using the Portable for 2 years(about) and everything is fine. I know I am off the chart on some things, but it it ain't broke don't fix it. I have had very good luck with it and until something changes, neither am I. Frequency to me means how many times I get to walk from the pad to the cooler for another Lite. LOL Leroy Eckert 1990WB-40"Smoke N Mirrors" Niceville, FL ----- Original Message ----- From: Gardner Yeaw To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 6:28 PM Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: EMS 50C Leroy, The 136 second delay is to protect air conditioners that don't have a built in delay. That way if there is a short power loss or if the unit shuts down it will allow the AC to bleed the presure down before starting the compressor. In the permanent surge protector unit it is adjustable to a shorter setting if your AC units don't require it. Gardner 78FC33 --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com "Leroy Eckert" > > And the PT-50-B that I have does the same thing. There is a 136 second (I think) delay as the unit checks the electrical data. > > Leroy Eckert > 1990 WB-40"Smoke N Mirrors" > Niceville, FL > As for theft, I stay in nice parks. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Wilhelmus Schreurs > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 2:37 PM > Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: EMS 50C > > > Guys: > One thing with the hardwired unit, it does not function immediately. If you plug in your cord and the wires are mixed up, neutral broken or ground not there, the contactor will not pick up thus not giving you any power in the coach. > > AND once plugged in, if there is a problem of any sort the contactor drops out not giving you any power to the coach. > > Bill 84 FC 35 SB "$quanderlodge" > Terrace, B.C. Canada > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Don Bradner > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 9:58:18 AM > Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: EMS 50C > > As others have noted, Tweety's tends to be the best price around on a lot of things. I had never heard of them before this EMS thing came up, but when I went looking for a couple of Kwikee Superslides, Tweety's was about $70 each less than others. When I ordered I mentioned they were getting that because of the Wanderlodge deal, even though I wasn't interested in an EMS. > > Oh, their portable 50-amp EMS is $289.98. Their current on the hardwire is $299.98, and both are listed as sale prices. > > On 3/25/2007 at 7:24 AM Howard O. Truitt wrote: > > >Gardner, > > >I think some of us would rather use the portable Progressive EMS PT30 or > > >PT 50C Surge Protector. One of the great advantages is being able to > > >connect the portable to the outlet and check the outlet and power before > > >pulling in and setting up. How about seeing if a deal could be arranged > > >with Tweety's on the portable units. The going price I have found on the > > >PT 50C is $399.00 S&H included. > > >Howard Truitt > > >Camilla, Ga. > > >86 PT40 > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > Don Bradner > > 90 PT40 "Blue Thunder" > > Eureka, CA > > <!-- > > #ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px;font-family:arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;} > #ygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;} > #ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea {font:99% arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;} > #ygrp-mlmsg pre, code {font:115% monospace;} > #ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height:1.22em;} > #ygrp-text{ > font-family:Georgia; > } > #ygrp-text p{ > margin:0 0 1em 0;} > #ygrp-tpmsgs{ > font-family:Arial; > clear:both;} > #ygrp-vitnav{ > padding-top:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-size:77%;margin:0;} > #ygrp-vitnav a{ > padding:0 1px;} > #ygrp-actbar{ > clear:both;margin:25px 0;white-space:nowrap;color:#666;text- align:right;} > #ygrp-actbar .left{ > float:left;white-space:nowrap;} > .bld{font-weight:bold;} > #ygrp-grft{ > font-family:Verdana;font-size:77%;padding:15px 0;} > #ygrp-ft{ > font-family:verdana;font-size:77%;border-top:1px solid #666; > padding:5px 0; > } > #ygrp-mlmsg #logo{ > padding-bottom:10px;} > > #ygrp-vital{ > background-color:#e0ecee;margin-bottom:20px;padding:2px 0 8px 8px;} > #ygrp-vital #vithd{ > font-size:77%;font-family:Verdana;font- weight:bold;color:#333;text-transform:uppercase;} > #ygrp-vital ul{ > padding:0;margin:2px 0;} > #ygrp-vital ul li{ > list-style-type:none;clear:both;border:1px solid #e0ecee; > } > #ygrp-vital ul li .ct{ > font-weight:bold;color:#ff7900;float:right;width:2em;text- align:right;padding-right:.5em;} > #ygrp-vital ul li .cat{ > font-weight:bold;} > #ygrp-vital a { > text-decoration:none;} > > #ygrp-vital a:hover{ > text-decoration:underline;} > > #ygrp-sponsor #hd{ > color:#999;font-size:77%;} > #ygrp-sponsor #ov{ > padding:6px 13px;background-color:#e0ecee;margin-bottom:20px;} > #ygrp-sponsor #ov ul{ > padding:0 0 0 8px;margin:0;} > #ygrp-sponsor #ov li{ > list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;font-size:77%;} > #ygrp-sponsor #ov li a{ > text-decoration:none;font-size:130%;} > #ygrp-sponsor #nc { > background-color:#eee;margin-bottom:20px;padding:0 8px;} > #ygrp-sponsor .ad{ > padding:8px 0;} > #ygrp-sponsor .ad #hd1{ > font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold;color:#628c2a;font- size:100%;line-height:122%;} > #ygrp-sponsor .ad a{ > text-decoration:none;} > #ygrp-sponsor .ad a:hover{ > text-decoration:underline;} > #ygrp-sponsor .ad p{ > margin:0;} > o {font-size:0;} > .MsoNormal { > margin:0 0 0 0;} > #ygrp-text tt{ > font-size:120%;} > blockquote{margin:0 0 0 4px;} > .replbq {margin:4;} > --> > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com<http://mail.yahoo.com/> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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03-26-2007, 04:35
Post: #32
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EMS 50C
Leroy, The majorsell for me on a portable unit is 1- stopping the
slectrical powersurge outside of the coach 2- protecting the 50 amp BB powerchord from passing and being compramised by a surge or overmax draw 3-allowing visiting guests to use protected power at my home after I move my bus from its perch. Hard wire protection (vesectamony) may be the best because you never worry about hooking up the protection. Hardwire is trick and typical of Bluebird convienence. Hard wire provides twice the protection (gen/shore). The passion within this thread is driven by the comforting egarness of forum members wish to help members.For now I dont use SPotection,. GregoryO'Connor 94ptRomolandCa I know enough about electricity to realize that I dont know enough. GregoryO'Connor 94ptRomoland The pass--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Leroy Eckert" > > I guess everyone can make their own decisions based on the data at hand. I'll keep the portable since I have had excellent results using it and I will not have to be concerned with the buzzing noise others complain about or the potential of compromising factory wiring. If a power surge takes it out, I'll pull it out of the pedestal, and repair it or replace it. The less maintenance I have to perform inside the bus, the better I personally like it. > Thanks as always for the input. It is good to read everyone's opinion and conclusions gleaned from the same data. > > Leroy Eckert > 1990 WB-40"Smoke N Mirrors" > Niceville, FL > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Richard Hayden > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 10:34 PM > Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: EMS 50C > > > As you said Leroy "With all due respect" then "however", I have had the generator fail me and take out a new tv. Ernie had his plug fail and took out a bunch of stuff for him just awhile back. In my case it ain't broke now and I don't want it to become broke. Been there, done that. > > Good luck. > > Dick Hayden - '87 PT 38 - Lake Stevens, WA > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Leroy Eckert > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 7:03 PM > Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: EMS 50C > > With all due respect, your input may be absolutely true. > > However, I purchased my Surge Protector (that is how it was sold) for one reason only. To protect against irregular park power, nothing more, nothing less. . I would not expect it to inspect my power cord for defects or tell me when my transfer switch is taking a &^%$. I do that. Of course, I cannot see the connections at the transfer switch. > > If I want to start my genset, and I do so twice monthly when plugged into shore power, I turn off the pedestal breaker and pull the plug. I do not need to know anything about frequency or depend on an instrument to do it for me. That is all I am saying. I have been using the Portable for 2 years(about) and everything is fine. > > I know I am off the chart on some things, but it it ain't broke don't fix it. I have had very good luck with it and until something changes, neither am I. > > Frequency to me means how many times I get to walk from the pad to the cooler for another Lite. LOL > > Leroy Eckert > 1990WB-40"Smoke N Mirrors" > Niceville, FL > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Gardner Yeaw > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 6:28 PM > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: EMS 50C > > Leroy, > The 136 second delay is to protect air conditioners that don't > have a built in delay. That way if there is a short power loss or if > the unit shuts down it will allow the AC to bleed the presure down > before starting the compressor. In the permanent surge protector > unit it is adjustable to a shorter setting if your AC units don't > require it. > > Gardner > 78FC33 > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com > > > > > And the PT-50-B that I have does the same thing. There is a 136 > second (I think) delay as the unit checks the electrical data. > > > > Leroy Eckert > > 1990 WB-40"Smoke N Mirrors" > > Niceville, FL > > As for theft, I stay in nice parks. > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Wilhelmus Schreurs > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 2:37 PM > > Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: EMS 50C > > > > > > Guys: > > One thing with the hardwired unit, it does not function > immediately. If you plug in your cord and the wires are mixed up, > neutral broken or ground not there, the contactor will not pick up > thus not giving you any power in the coach. > > > > AND once plugged in, if there is a problem of any sort the > contactor drops out not giving you any power to the coach. > > > > Bill 84 FC 35 SB "$quanderlodge" > > Terrace, B.C. Canada > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > > From: Don Bradner > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 9:58:18 AM > > Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: EMS 50C > > > > As others have noted, Tweety's tends to be the best price around > on a lot of things. I had never heard of them before this EMS thing > came up, but when I went looking for a couple of Kwikee Superslides, > Tweety's was about $70 each less than others. When I ordered I > mentioned they were getting that because of the Wanderlodge deal, > even though I wasn't interested in an EMS. > > > > Oh, their portable 50-amp EMS is $289.98. Their current on the > hardwire is $299.98, and both are listed as sale prices. > > > > On 3/25/2007 at 7:24 AM Howard O. Truitt wrote: > > > > >Gardner, > > > > >I think some of us would rather use the portable Progressive > EMS PT30 or > > > > >PT 50C Surge Protector. One of the great advantages is being > able to > > > > >connect the portable to the outlet and check the outlet and > power before > > > > >pulling in and setting up. How about seeing if a deal could be > arranged > > > > >with Tweety's on the portable units. The going price I have > found on the > > > > >PT 50C is $399.00 S&H included. > > > > >Howard Truitt > > > > >Camilla, Ga. > > > > >86 PT40 > > > > > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Don Bradner > > > > 90 PT40 "Blue Thunder" > > > > Eureka, CA > > > > <!-- > > > > #ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px;font-family:arial, helvetica, clean, > sans-serif;} > > #ygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;} > > #ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea {font:99% arial, helvetica, > clean, sans-serif;} > > #ygrp-mlmsg pre, code {font:115% monospace;} > > #ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height:1.22em;} > > #ygrp-text{ > > font-family:Georgia; > > } > > #ygrp-text p{ > > margin:0 0 1em 0;} > > #ygrp-tpmsgs{ > > font-family:Arial; > > clear:both;} > > #ygrp-vitnav{ > > padding-top:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-size:77%;margin:0;} > > #ygrp-vitnav a{ > > padding:0 1px;} > > #ygrp-actbar{ > > clear:both;margin:25px 0;white-space:nowrap;color:#666;text- > align:right;} > > #ygrp-actbar .left{ > > float:left;white-space:nowrap;} > > .bld{font-weight:bold;} > > #ygrp-grft{ > > font-family:Verdana;font-size:77%;padding:15px 0;} > > #ygrp-ft{ > > font-family:verdana;font-size:77%;border-top:1px solid #666; > > padding:5px 0; > > } > > #ygrp-mlmsg #logo{ > > padding-bottom:10px;} > > > > #ygrp-vital{ > > background-color:#e0ecee;margin-bottom:20px;padding:2px 0 8px > 8px;} > > #ygrp-vital #vithd{ > > font-size:77%;font-family:Verdana;font- > weight:bold;color:#333;text-transform:uppercase;} > > #ygrp-vital ul{ > > padding:0;margin:2px 0;} > > #ygrp-vital ul li{ > > list-style-type:none;clear:both;border:1px solid #e0ecee; > > } > > #ygrp-vital ul li .ct{ > > font-weight:bold;color:#ff7900;float:right;width:2em;text- > align:right;padding-right:.5em;} > > #ygrp-vital ul li .cat{ > > font-weight:bold;} > > #ygrp-vital a { > > text-decoration:none;} > > > > #ygrp-vital a:hover{ > > text-decoration:underline;} > > > > #ygrp-sponsor #hd{ > > color:#999;font-size:77%;} > > #ygrp-sponsor #ov{ > > padding:6px 13px;background-color:#e0ecee;margin-bottom:20px;} > > #ygrp-sponsor #ov ul{ > > padding:0 0 0 8px;margin:0;} > > #ygrp-sponsor #ov li{ > > list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;font-size:77%;} > > #ygrp-sponsor #ov li a{ > > text-decoration:none;font-size:130%;} > > #ygrp-sponsor #nc { > > background-color:#eee;margin-bottom:20px;padding:0 8px;} > > #ygrp-sponsor .ad{ > > padding:8px 0;} > > #ygrp-sponsor .ad #hd1{ > > font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold;color:#628c2a;font- > size:100%;line-height:122%;} > > #ygrp-sponsor .ad a{ > > text-decoration:none;} > > #ygrp-sponsor .ad a:hover{ > > text-decoration:underline;} > > #ygrp-sponsor .ad p{ > > margin:0;} > > o {font-size:0;} > > .MsoNormal { > > margin:0 0 0 0;} > > #ygrp-text tt{ > > font-size:120%;} > > blockquote{margin:0 0 0 4px;} > > .replbq {margin:4;} > > --> > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > > http://mail.yahoo.com<http://mail.yahoo.com/> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > |
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03-26-2007, 07:48
Post: #33
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EMS 50C
Ralph,
I'm the one who reported the death of the tv from a generator problem. That was on our previous '81FC. I have also experienced a generator output problem on our current '87PT. Our genset on this bus is a 8kw Power Tech and the "brain board" suddenly quit causing very high voltages. On our previous bus the generator was the standard Kohler 12.5kw. As on all arrangements on BB's, it had its own breaker box close to the unit. You are correct, these thing must be maintained. What happened on the '81 was the screws in the breaker box worked loose over time to the point that they were not making continuous contact. Hence the spikes and the demise of the tv. When the brain box failed on the '87, I turned it off as soon as I noticed the voltage was very high and was very lucky that apparently there were no appliances on line at the time since nothing quit working. Obviously, my reaction time can't match that of any protective device so I was just lucky. But, you are correct, it is a matter of choice and that is why both configurations are available. Respectfully, Dick Hayden - '87 PT 38 - Lake Stevens, WA ----- Original Message ----- From: Ralph L. Fullenwider To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 1:01 PM Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: EMS 50C Hello Bill and All: My thoughts on the EMS did not and does not pit one system against another of the same ilk. Both have value albeit of different inputs and of course lifestyles and present equipment. With the unfortunate experience Ernie braved on his power cable, we have all learned a very valuable lesson, and that is preventative maintenance. I agree, that I missed the most obvious of things incoming power. So I will attempt to separate my thoughts on each matter. These units are good, no doubt but not a wiz bang cure all and the interior parts are subject to the same amperage overloads as any other system. Amperage translates into heat and heat translates to predicted mean time failure for relays, contacts and electronic parts. We all know that relay contacts, over time will discolor with heat aka amperage, then progress from there to pitting of the contact surface thus an actual welding of those very contacts that protects down stream systems by opening and thus stopping the damaging amperage (spike). Ok, I doubt there is a study on the mean time fail rate or percentage of that type of failure. While true, the portable will only do a partial job, but is not the main theme here and of these units to disconnect when a power spike or surge comes from the errant power source in an RV park? Until one of the members reported that his gen set caused the death of a TV set, I had not, in 10 years, seen this happen. Some things I tend to take for granted, such as clean power from gen sets because, unlike RV parks, it is a steady known source of power for our coaches. I tend to stay with the thought, "I have to trust some things, and the gen set is one of those." And also tend to go with the percentage of failure and the gen sets are on the VERY low end of the fail scale. We have learned, on this Forum, over the years, that proper maintenance of the gen set is mandatory to maintain a steady known source of power and I see no reason to have to protect from that source. That is my opinion only and perhaps flawed, but perceived to be a truism. We are also talking about 2 major types of input switching in these coaches as well. That is the manual transfer switch and the automatic transfer switch (ATS) The first, manual, is owner controlled as to the power being allowed into his coach. The latter (ATS) is not owner controlled. Having separated those two, My thoughts go to the two types of EMS units. One the portable and the other the hard wired. The portable, for the manual transfer switch will work the job of the intended use, and that is checking the incoming power in the RV park pedestal and can be checked prior to switching the manual transfer switch to allow the power into the coach. While on the other hand, those coaches with the (ATS) do not have that luxury and I agree, the hard wired is the best choice for those coaches. and offer a better protection. Save for the forgotten power cord, which is not checked, I still belive that either or will get the main job done for the manual coach. Any system can be taken to the point of over kill. What I don't know about this EMS unit, is will it shut down with an over amperage down stream as well as incoming? If it does then, in staying with the original theme of "protection" from errant RV park power, both units, each in it's particular usage get's the job done. If not, then the EMS does have a fault that can fail. Bottom line, the EMS is a GOOD thing but not a cure all and life style and choice becomes the deciding factor. It is hard to believe that MOV's and POV's will burn and open as they are designed to do in under a millisecond. And a millisecond is all that is needed for a huge power spike to take out sensitive electronic systems even though protected. A huge spike of voltage or amperage will actually bridge and air gap of 1/2 inch or less no matter if a relay contact is open or closed, but then that is going off the deep end of the far side of the scale. I have not seen a POV or MOV that reacts in the nano second range as this unit advertises. (still old school here on that) Apologies for this being so long winded, it is just some thoughts on the subject. It still comes down to what each owner is comfortable with and works best for him or her. Safe travels, Ralph and Charolette Fullenwider 84FC35 Ralph's RV Solutions, Duncan, Oklahoma At 01:45 PM 3/25/2007 -0700, you wrote: >BIG MISTAKE going with the portable unit. >As I said in another post, the hardwire one will also check the portable >cable which is usually the biggest problem on the electrical side. >Ralph, can you explain yourself, why you would think the portable one is >better, as the I think the portable one would only do a partial job. > >Bill 84 FC 35 SB "$quanderlodge" >Terrace, B.C. Canada > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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03-26-2007, 07:57
Post: #34
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EMS 50C
> Ralph,
What little I know or understand about electricity will fit on the head of a nano needle. As I previous stated I think our greatest exposure to a possible bad power situation is at the post in the parks. If the post checked ok why not plug the cord to the post and then plug the cord to the PT 50 to check the cord. For those who still have worries about the generator install a hard wired unit on the generator output before it connects to any transfer switches. This set up with the portable and hard wired unit would cost about $600.00 for the two units. Do the portable now and the hard wired one to the generator next year. Still some cheap insurance. Question; What if you are in a park that only has 30 amp service. How would this work then would you then need PT30 or will the PT50 read the 30 amp ok. Howard Truitt Camilla, Ga. 86 PT40 |
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03-26-2007, 08:01
Post: #35
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EMS 50C
Hello Bill and All:
My thoughts on the EMS did not and does not pit one system against another of the same ilk. Both have value albeit of different inputs and of course lifestyles and present equipment. With the unfortunate experience Ernie braved on his power cable, we have all learned a very valuable lesson, and that is preventative maintenance. I agree, that I missed the most obvious of things incoming power. So I will attempt to separate my thoughts on each matter. These units are good, no doubt but not a wiz bang cure all and the interior parts are subject to the same amperage overloads as any other system. Amperage translates into heat and heat translates to predicted mean time failure for relays, contacts and electronic parts. We all know that relay contacts, over time will discolor with heat aka amperage, then progress from there to pitting of the contact surface thus an actual welding of those very contacts that protects down stream systems by opening and thus stopping the damaging amperage (spike). Ok, I doubt there is a study on the mean time fail rate or percentage of that type of failure. While true, the portable will only do a partial job, but is not the main theme here and of these units to disconnect when a power spike or surge comes from the errant power source in an RV park? Until one of the members reported that his gen set caused the death of a TV set, I had not, in 10 years, seen this happen. Some things I tend to take for granted, such as clean power from gen sets because, unlike RV parks, it is a steady known source of power for our coaches. I tend to stay with the thought, "I have to trust some things, and the gen set is one of those." And also tend to go with the percentage of failure and the gen sets are on the VERY low end of the fail scale. We have learned, on this Forum, over the years, that proper maintenance of the gen set is mandatory to maintain a steady known source of power and I see no reason to have to protect from that source. That is my opinion only and perhaps flawed, but perceived to be a truism. We are also talking about 2 major types of input switching in these coaches as well. That is the manual transfer switch and the automatic transfer switch (ATS) The first, manual, is owner controlled as to the power being allowed into his coach. The latter (ATS) is not owner controlled. Having separated those two, My thoughts go to the two types of EMS units. One the portable and the other the hard wired. The portable, for the manual transfer switch will work the job of the intended use, and that is checking the incoming power in the RV park pedestal and can be checked prior to switching the manual transfer switch to allow the power into the coach. While on the other hand, those coaches with the (ATS) do not have that luxury and I agree, the hard wired is the best choice for those coaches. and offer a better protection. Save for the forgotten power cord, which is not checked, I still belive that either or will get the main job done for the manual coach. Any system can be taken to the point of over kill. What I don't know about this EMS unit, is will it shut down with an over amperage down stream as well as incoming? If it does then, in staying with the original theme of "protection" from errant RV park power, both units, each in it's particular usage get's the job done. If not, then the EMS does have a fault that can fail. Bottom line, the EMS is a GOOD thing but not a cure all and life style and choice becomes the deciding factor. It is hard to believe that MOV's and POV's will burn and open as they are designed to do in under a millisecond. And a millisecond is all that is needed for a huge power spike to take out sensitive electronic systems even though protected. A huge spike of voltage or amperage will actually bridge and air gap of 1/2 inch or less no matter if a relay contact is open or closed, but then that is going off the deep end of the far side of the scale. I have not seen a POV or MOV that reacts in the nano second range as this unit advertises. (still old school here on that) Apologies for this being so long winded, it is just some thoughts on the subject. It still comes down to what each owner is comfortable with and works best for him or her. Safe travels, Ralph and Charolette Fullenwider 84FC35 Ralph's RV Solutions, Duncan, Oklahoma At 01:45 PM 3/25/2007 -0700, you wrote: >BIG MISTAKE going with the portable unit. >As I said in another post, the hardwire one will also check the portable >cable which is usually the biggest problem on the electrical side. >Ralph, can you explain yourself, why you would think the portable one is >better, as the I think the portable one would only do a partial job. > >Bill 84 FC 35 SB "$quanderlodge" >Terrace, B.C. Canada > > |
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03-26-2007, 08:33
Post: #36
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EMS 50C
Yep, I agree with you, Gardner, Richard and Ralph. Ralph's old school analysis
is exactly how I think when it comes to the Genset (I rely on it) and the Portable Surge Protector with one exception. ATS coach owners do have the opportunity to check power before they plug in the cord. All you need to do is read the codes. If it is showing E-0 all is well. Plug it in. In an effort to prevent a dead TV, I use an additional surge strips on those and other electronic devises, and as Ralph stated may not be a cure all. Last Summer lightning got my 56" wide screen power supply at home which was plugged into an independent constant voltage transformer and surge protector. 4 other unprotected TV's in the home were not damaged. Naturally, the really expensive protected one took the hit. I think it got to it faster than a nano second. I know enough about electricity to know that I do not know enough also, but I'm gaining on it. Choices, choices, isn't this fun? Leroy Eckert 1990WB-40"Smoke N Mirrors" Niceville, FL EMS PT-50 ----- Original Message ----- From: Gregory OConnor To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 10:35 AM Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: EMS 50C Leroy, The majorsell for me on a portable unit is 1- stopping the slectrical powersurge outside of the coach 2- protecting the 50 amp BB powerchord from passing and being compramised by a surge or overmax draw 3-allowing visiting guests to use protected power at my home after I move my bus from its perch. Hard wire protection (vesectamony) may be the best because you never worry about hooking up the protection. Hardwire is trick and typical of Bluebird convienence. Hard wire provides twice the protection (gen/shore). The passion within this thread is driven by the comforting egarness of forum members wish to help members.For now I dont use SPotection,. GregoryO'Connor 94ptRomolandCa I know enough about electricity to realize that I dont know enough. GregoryO'Connor 94ptRomoland The pass--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Leroy Eckert" > > I guess everyone can make their own decisions based on the data at hand. I'll keep the portable since I have had excellent results using it and I will not have to be concerned with the buzzing noise others complain about or the potential of compromising factory wiring. If a power surge takes it out, I'll pull it out of the pedestal, and repair it or replace it. The less maintenance I have to perform inside the bus, the better I personally like it. > Thanks as always for the input. It is good to read everyone's opinion and conclusions gleaned from the same data. > > Leroy Eckert > 1990 WB-40"Smoke N Mirrors" > Niceville, FL > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Richard Hayden > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 10:34 PM > Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: EMS 50C > > > As you said Leroy "With all due respect" then "however", I have had the generator fail me and take out a new tv. Ernie had his plug fail and took out a bunch of stuff for him just awhile back. In my case it ain't broke now and I don't want it to become broke. Been there, done that. > > Good luck. > > Dick Hayden - '87 PT 38 - Lake Stevens, WA > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Leroy Eckert > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 7:03 PM > Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: EMS 50C > > With all due respect, your input may be absolutely true. > > However, I purchased my Surge Protector (that is how it was sold) for one reason only. To protect against irregular park power, nothing more, nothing less. . I would not expect it to inspect my power cord for defects or tell me when my transfer switch is taking a &^%$. I do that. Of course, I cannot see the connections at the transfer switch. > > If I want to start my genset, and I do so twice monthly when plugged into shore power, I turn off the pedestal breaker and pull the plug. I do not need to know anything about frequency or depend on an instrument to do it for me. That is all I am saying. I have been using the Portable for 2 years(about) and everything is fine. > > I know I am off the chart on some things, but it it ain't broke don't fix it. I have had very good luck with it and until something changes, neither am I. > > Frequency to me means how many times I get to walk from the pad to the cooler for another Lite. LOL > > Leroy Eckert > 1990WB-40"Smoke N Mirrors" > Niceville, FL > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Gardner Yeaw > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 6:28 PM > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: EMS 50C > > Leroy, > The 136 second delay is to protect air conditioners that don't > have a built in delay. That way if there is a short power loss or if > the unit shuts down it will allow the AC to bleed the presure down > before starting the compressor. In the permanent surge protector > unit it is adjustable to a shorter setting if your AC units don't > require it. > > Gardner > 78FC33 > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com > > > > > And the PT-50-B that I have does the same thing. There is a 136 > second (I think) delay as the unit checks the electrical data. > > > > Leroy Eckert > > 1990 WB-40"Smoke N Mirrors" > > Niceville, FL > > As for theft, I stay in nice parks. > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Wilhelmus Schreurs > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 2:37 PM > > Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: EMS 50C > > > > > > Guys: > > One thing with the hardwired unit, it does not function > immediately. If you plug in your cord and the wires are mixed up, > neutral broken or ground not there, the contactor will not pick up > thus not giving you any power in the coach. > > > > AND once plugged in, if there is a problem of any sort the > contactor drops out not giving you any power to the coach. > > > > Bill 84 FC 35 SB "$quanderlodge" > > Terrace, B.C. Canada > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > > From: Don Bradner > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 9:58:18 AM > > Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: EMS 50C > > > > As others have noted, Tweety's tends to be the best price around > on a lot of things. I had never heard of them before this EMS thing > came up, but when I went looking for a couple of Kwikee Superslides, > Tweety's was about $70 each less than others. When I ordered I > mentioned they were getting that because of the Wanderlodge deal, > even though I wasn't interested in an EMS. > > > > Oh, their portable 50-amp EMS is $289.98. Their current on the > hardwire is $299.98, and both are listed as sale prices. > > > > On 3/25/2007 at 7:24 AM Howard O. Truitt wrote: > > > > >Gardner, > > > > >I think some of us would rather use the portable Progressive > EMS PT30 or > > > > >PT 50C Surge Protector. One of the great advantages is being > able to > > > > >connect the portable to the outlet and check the outlet and > power before > > > > >pulling in and setting up. How about seeing if a deal could be > arranged > > > > >with Tweety's on the portable units. The going price I have > found on the > > > > >PT 50C is $399.00 S&H included. > > > > >Howard Truitt > > > > >Camilla, Ga. > > > > >86 PT40 > > > > > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Don Bradner > > > > 90 PT40 "Blue Thunder" > > > > Eureka, CA > > > > <!-- > > > > #ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px;font-family:arial, helvetica, clean, > sans-serif;} > > #ygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;} > > #ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea {font:99% arial, helvetica, > clean, sans-serif;} > > #ygrp-mlmsg pre, code {font:115% monospace;} > > #ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height:1.22em;} > > #ygrp-text{ > > font-family:Georgia; > > } > > #ygrp-text p{ > > margin:0 0 1em 0;} > > #ygrp-tpmsgs{ > > font-family:Arial; > > clear:both;} > > #ygrp-vitnav{ > > padding-top:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-size:77%;margin:0;} > > #ygrp-vitnav a{ > > padding:0 1px;} > > #ygrp-actbar{ > > clear:both;margin:25px 0;white-space:nowrap;color:#666;text- > align:right;} > > #ygrp-actbar .left{ > > float:left;white-space:nowrap;} > > .bld{font-weight:bold;} > > #ygrp-grft{ > > font-family:Verdana;font-size:77%;padding:15px 0;} > > #ygrp-ft{ > > font-family:verdana;font-size:77%;border-top:1px solid #666; > > padding:5px 0; > > } > > #ygrp-mlmsg #logo{ > > padding-bottom:10px;} > > > > #ygrp-vital{ > > background-color:#e0ecee;margin-bottom:20px;padding:2px 0 8px > 8px;} > > #ygrp-vital #vithd{ > > font-size:77%;font-family:Verdana;font- > weight:bold;color:#333;text-transform:uppercase;} > > #ygrp-vital ul{ > > padding:0;margin:2px 0;} > > #ygrp-vital ul li{ > > list-style-type:none;clear:both;border:1px solid #e0ecee; > > } > > #ygrp-vital ul li .ct{ > > font-weight:bold;color:#ff7900;float:right;width:2em;text- > align:right;padding-right:.5em;} > > #ygrp-vital ul li .cat{ > > font-weight:bold;} > > #ygrp-vital a { > > text-decoration:none;} > > > > #ygrp-vital a:hover{ > > text-decoration:underline;} > > > > #ygrp-sponsor #hd{ > > color:#999;font-size:77%;} > > #ygrp-sponsor #ov{ > > padding:6px 13px;background-color:#e0ecee;margin-bottom:20px;} > > #ygrp-sponsor #ov ul{ > > padding:0 0 0 8px;margin:0;} > > #ygrp-sponsor #ov li{ > > list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;font-size:77%;} > > #ygrp-sponsor #ov li a{ > > text-decoration:none;font-size:130%;} > > #ygrp-sponsor #nc { > > background-color:#eee;margin-bottom:20px;padding:0 8px;} > > #ygrp-sponsor .ad{ > > padding:8px 0;} > > #ygrp-sponsor .ad #hd1{ > > font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold;color:#628c2a;font- > size:100%;line-height:122%;} > > #ygrp-sponsor .ad a{ > > text-decoration:none;} > > #ygrp-sponsor .ad a:hover{ > > text-decoration:underline;} > > #ygrp-sponsor .ad p{ > > margin:0;} > > o {font-size:0;} > > .MsoNormal { > > margin:0 0 0 0;} > > #ygrp-text tt{ > > font-size:120%;} > > blockquote{margin:0 0 0 4px;} > > .replbq {margin:4;} > > --> > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > > http://mail.yahoo.com<http://mail.yahoo.com/> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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03-26-2007, 11:53
Post: #37
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EMS 50C
Howard:
I honestly do not know if the EMS50 will work off a pig tail. I don't have one, perhaps one of the guys will have an answer. Safe travels, Ralph and Charolette Fullenwider 84FC35 Ralph's RV Solutions, Duncan, Oklahoma At 03:57 PM 3/26/2007 -0400, you wrote: > > Ralph, >What little I know or understand about electricity will fit on the head of >a nano needle. >As I previous stated I think our greatest exposure to a possible bad power >situation is at the post in the parks. If the post checked ok why not plug >the cord to the post and then plug the cord to the PT 50 to check the >cord. For those who still have worries about the generator install a hard >wired unit on the generator output before it connects to any transfer >switches. This set up with the portable and hard wired unit would cost >about $600.00 for the two units. Do the portable now and the hard wired >one to the generator next year. Still some cheap insurance. >Question; What if you are in a park that only has 30 amp service. How >would this work then would you then need PT30 or will the PT50 read the 30 >amp ok. >Howard Truitt >Camilla, Ga. >86 PT40 > > > |
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03-26-2007, 11:57
Post: #38
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EMS 50C
HI Dick:
Interesting, this is the sort of thing we need to hear about on the Forum. Most VR's (voltage regulators) shut off when they fail. In this case, then yes, the EMS hard wired would protect against the over voltage. Still, so far as I know of it is a rare thing but may induce me to change my thoughts on the gen set. It is food for thought. Thank you Safe travels, Ralph and Charolette Fullenwider 84FC35 Ralph's RV Solutions, Duncan, Oklahoma At 12:48 PM 3/26/2007 -0700, you wrote: >Ralph, >I'm the one who reported the death of the tv from a generator >problem. That was on our previous '81FC. I have also experienced a >generator output problem on our current '87PT. Our genset on this bus is >a 8kw Power Tech and the "brain board" suddenly quit causing very high >voltages. On our previous bus the generator was the standard Kohler >12.5kw. As on all arrangements on BB's, it had its own breaker box close >to the unit. You are correct, these thing must be maintained. What >happened on the '81 was the screws in the breaker box worked loose over >time to the point that they were not making continuous contact. Hence the >spikes and the demise of the tv. When the brain box failed on the '87, I >turned it off as soon as I noticed the voltage was very high and was very >lucky that apparently there were no appliances on line at the time since >nothing quit working. Obviously, my reaction time can't match that of any >protective device so I was just lucky. > >But, you are correct, it is a matter of choice and that is why both >configurations are available. > >Respectfully, > >Dick Hayden - '87 PT 38 - Lake Stevens, WA |
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03-26-2007, 12:18
Post: #39
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EMS 50C
Howard:
From my understanding it should work all the way down to a 15 amp circuit, 120 volts Bill 84 FC 35 SB "$quanderlodge" Terrace, B.C. Canada ----- Original Message ---- From: "truitt44@..." Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 12:57:01 PM Subject: Re: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: EMS 50C > Ralph, What little I know or understand about electricity will fit on the head of a nano needle. As I previous stated I think our greatest exposure to a possible bad power situation is at the post in the parks. If the post checked ok why not plug the cord to the post and then plug the cord to the PT 50 to check the cord. For those who still have worries about the generator install a hard wired unit on the generator output before it connects to any transfer switches. This set up with the portable and hard wired unit would cost about $600.00 for the two units. Do the portable now and the hard wired one to the generator next year. Still some cheap insurance. Question; What if you are in a park that only has 30 amp service. How would this work then would you then need PT30 or will the PT50 read the 30 amp ok. Howard Truitt Camilla, Ga. 86 PT40 <!-- #ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px;font-family:arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;} #ygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;} #ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea {font:99% arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;} #ygrp-mlmsg pre, code {font:115% monospace;} #ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height:1.22em;} #ygrp-text{ font-family:Georgia; } #ygrp-text p{ margin:0 0 1em 0;} #ygrp-tpmsgs{ font-family:Arial; clear:both;} #ygrp-vitnav{ padding-top:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-size:77%;margin:0;} #ygrp-vitnav a{ padding:0 1px;} #ygrp-actbar{ clear:both;margin:25px 0;white-space:nowrap;color:#666;text-align:right;} #ygrp-actbar .left{ float:left;white-space:nowrap;} .bld{font-weight:bold;} #ygrp-grft{ font-family:Verdana;font-size:77%;padding:15px 0;} #ygrp-ft{ font-family:verdana;font-size:77%;border-top:1px solid #666; padding:5px 0; } #ygrp-mlmsg #logo{ padding-bottom:10px;} #ygrp-vital{ background-color:#e0ecee;margin-bottom:20px;padding:2px 0 8px 8px;} #ygrp-vital #vithd{ font-size:77%;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:bold;color:#333;text-transform:upp\ ercase;} #ygrp-vital ul{ padding:0;margin:2px 0;} #ygrp-vital ul li{ list-style-type:none;clear:both;border:1px solid #e0ecee; } #ygrp-vital ul li .ct{ font-weight:bold;color:#ff7900;float:right;width:2em;text-align:right;padding-ri\ ght:.5em;} #ygrp-vital ul li .cat{ font-weight:bold;} #ygrp-vital a { text-decoration:none;} #ygrp-vital a:hover{ text-decoration:underline;} #ygrp-sponsor #hd{ color:#999;font-size:77%;} #ygrp-sponsor #ov{ padding:6px 13px;background-color:#e0ecee;margin-bottom:20px;} #ygrp-sponsor #ov ul{ padding:0 0 0 8px;margin:0;} #ygrp-sponsor #ov li{ list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;font-size:77%;} #ygrp-sponsor #ov li a{ text-decoration:none;font-size:130%;} #ygrp-sponsor #nc { background-color:#eee;margin-bottom:20px;padding:0 8px;} #ygrp-sponsor .ad{ padding:8px 0;} #ygrp-sponsor .ad #hd1{ font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold;color:#628c2a;font-size:100%;line-height:122%\ ;} #ygrp-sponsor .ad a{ text-decoration:none;} #ygrp-sponsor .ad a:hover{ text-decoration:underline;} #ygrp-sponsor .ad p{ margin:0;} o {font-size:0;} .MsoNormal { margin:0 0 0 0;} #ygrp-text tt{ font-size:120%;} blockquote{margin:0 0 0 4px;} .replbq {margin:4;} --> __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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03-26-2007, 12:49
Post: #40
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EMS 50C
One of the strongest and most common sources of
high voltage spikes is from inductive kickback when voltage is removed from a motor or relay or coil or an inductive load. External causes would include lightening or large power equipment or loads changing. Consider the automotive spark ignition, as points open the coil field collapses presenting a hi voltage, in thousands of volts jumping the spark plug gap. This same principle hold true in our coach relay coils as a switch or contacts open. Many times you can notice a spark when this happens under the right conditions. Automotive relays sometimes have a small diode in parallel with the coil to shunt this high voltage. Sometimes a small capacitor is placed across the switch contacts to do the same thing much the same as the condensor was placed across the ignition points to prevent them from burning. Just look at all the relays in a coach, my goodness. If I use the manual transfer switch I like to do so when connected to the least systems or components. The same thing holds true for contacts there arching when a load is switched or removed. For the ATs it would not take the care that you or I would removing the load before activation, it just switches, when certain conditions are met. All the more reason to have the EMS downstream of the ATS. I don't believe it beneficial to have the EMS on the generator side before th transfer switch either. Why not mount between the transfer switch and the main panel? bob janes, 87fc35, greenville, sc --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, > > > > Ralph, > What little I know or understand about electricity will fit on the head of a nano needle. > As I previous stated I think our greatest exposure to a possible bad power situation is at the post in the parks. If the post checked ok why not plug the cord to the post and then plug the cord to the PT 50 to check the cord. For those who still have worries about the generator install a hard wired unit on the generator output before it connects to any transfer switches. This set up with the portable and hard wired unit would cost about $600.00 for the two units. Do the portable now and the hard wired one to the generator next year. Still some cheap insurance. > Question; What if you are in a park that only has 30 amp service. How would this work then would you then need PT30 or will the PT50 read the 30 amp ok. > Howard Truitt > Camilla, Ga. > 86 PT40 > |
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