buyer beware

[pattypape]

JEH BubblerBoy,

Any 20/25 year old vehicle will have some issues. Look at as many
Birds as you can find. I learned the most from the experiences
looking at those is disrepair.

Go to a Rally , ask a volunteer Forum member to look at a coach.
When you get serious pay for an inspection. There are several expert
Forum members that will charge a fee.

Remember most sellers do not tell all, One needs to be experienced at
asking questions. And all vehicles hold their own secret that will
surface in the first 5K to 10K miles of use. Keep looking and asking
questions, your Bird is out there.
We looked for almost 2 years.
Most Ole Birds will take 10K to $ 15K over a two or three year
period. You can purchase Old and add parts or purchase a newer any
Brand and take depreciation. It is a personal choice.

This is a lifestyle, a hobby, it is fun and a Recreational Vehicle.
One does not get money back from recreation when you reach the exit
door such as: Golfing, fishing, Sports events, or Disney World etc.
Usually no $$ are returned from even Vegas.

Bill 88 FC Michigan FC's are in your budget they are great.




--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "bubblerboy64"
wrote:
>
> Dan, David and Mike, Thanks for your very sound advice and words
of
> encouragement. I will do exactly as you suggested Dan. And I
> appreciate the heads up to Miller Coach. My intention for this
coach
> is more short (200 to 300 round trips) then long across country
> runs. Obviously I would expect it to be capable. So my
> thoughts are I don't necessarily need the pushest coach. Frequently
I
> am by myself so it also need not be the largest.(I have looked at
> Class C and even B motor homes but they have no appeal to me at
> all). I would like it to be clean and attractive with out needing
to
> look new. I would not like it to show rust. There are several
> seventies FC available which might work for me. I will have to
learn
> more and follow through as Dan suggested until I find "my" BB. I
am
> getting a picture of what I think I want and at least a very
general
> idea as to price. I appreciate the help given and any to be given.
> If any of you have potential prospects or leads I am listening.
And
> while I have your collective ears another question. Why is it that
> none of these older FC coaches have functioning engine driven AC?
> With all else "good" about BB why would these AC's be bad pretty
> across the board? And wouldn't it be relatively easy to "rig up"
> modern automotive compressors and such to replace the originals?
> Again thanks much JEH
>
>
>
>
>
> >
> > JEH,
> > 2 years ago plus I sold a mechanically solid nicely upgraded
83FC35
> > tubo with very good tires and batteries for $30,000. I was a 2
bird
> > owner and needed to sell one. I did a lot of the work myself
and
> > had about $45,000 to $55,000 in it.
> >
> > The current owner has had little expense since and is still
> enjoying
> > it. The coaches are out there. Pics of the coach I sold when I
> > still owned it are here:
> > http://rides.webshots.com/album/154715312Axawnh
> > http://rides.webshots.com/album/192165894pfPFdO
> >
> > The moral, or lesson is that I sold a nice coach for 30K over 2
> years
> > ago. Do not give up, simply search long and hard for a coach
that
> > is "almost" complete. Spend the time to look. Take no one way
> > trips, buy no coach sight unseen. Spend several thousand dollars
> on
> > travel to find the "right one".
> >
> > These forums are the best place to find the right one, as owners
> here
> > tend to maintain and upgrade, plus other members have usually
seen
> > the coach.
> >
> > Dan
> > 94 BB BMC 37'
> >
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "bubblerboy64"
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Mike, That's the kind of information I need to hear. I was
> looking
> > at
> > > some older NA coaches and it seemed to me that $30k might do
it.
> > > Apparently not? I am just trying to gather together an idea of
> what
> > > is involved. I was thinking that perhaps paying $20 or about
that
> > and
> > > figuring another $10k might do it. I am not going to be able to
> > > invest $60K. I just would not get my moneys worth for what I
> would
> > > be using the coach for. I am not looking for a 10 out of 10.
But
> I
> > > was thinking that for $30K a guy could have a very presentable
BB
> > > which was solid. If you are telling me you bought the best
you've
> > > seen and still needed to spend another $45k doing the labor
> > yourself
> > > I pretty well better forget it. JEH
> > > >
> > > > I started out with a "fixer" for 15k. Rear bath FC.
> > > > I wuz lucky, it's the cleanest FC I've ever seen, and I have
> > > inspected a few. Bought it on the internet from on line pics.
> > Blown
> > > engine. Figured I fix it up a little and flip it. It turned
out
> > to
> > > be so nice, decided I never find a better one.
> > > > Now that I am putting the final touches on the charge air
> cooler
> > > install, not to mention the exterior restoration, the change
over
> > to
> > > 24.5s the unending chassis electrical issues I'm getting real
> close
> > > to $60k and not much of that is farmed out labor. I did all
the
> > > heavy mechanical work and most of the inside repairs, water
> system,
> > > lighting, vents, etc.
> > > > Depends on how you choose to spend the money, most of the
good
> > > deals are when somebody dies. It pays to be a buzzard.
> > > > Cold but true.
> > > > Mike Hohnstein
> > > > Germantown, WI
> > > > 83 FC 35rb
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: bubblerboy64
> > > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 1:48 PM
> > > > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: buyer beware
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > And again my position as a buyer. My first preference would
> be
> > a
> > > > completely "ready to go" older FC rear bath coach needing
> > > nothing. At
> > > > a price which is "fair". And I have seen some likely
> prospects.
> > > > Coaches which have had leather interior and repaints which
> have
> > > > pushed the asking prices into the range of the pushers. See
> > > that's
> > > > the problem. I've fooled around with antique car
restorations
> > and
> > > > this is so similar. A restored vehicle is not likely to
sell
> > for
> > > the
> > > > cost of the restoration. I feel some sympathy for the
seller
> > when
> > > > you know what he has invested to get it right but as a
buyer
> > > paying
> > > > for his restoration just doesn't work either. So what's a
> nice
> > > coach
> > > > like I am looking for really worth? Well, it's worth
exactly
> > the
> > > > price negotiated between the seller and the buyer and there
> is
> > > the
> > > > rub. There are a couple real nice newerFC buses on the Bill
> > Board
> > > > right now with prices from 50 to 60K. So are they in
> > competition
> > > with
> > > > the pushers (?) I can't say. And what does that tell you
> about
> > > the
> > > > older FC's. One fellow has a 1975 listed for 30K. I e-
mailed
> > him
> > > > see what he comes back with. From what I have been able to
> > figure
> > > to
> > > > this point his bus would have to be a ready to go coach
plus
> > > some.
> > > > But on the other hand as a buyer I could see that a guy
could
> > > easily
> > > > spend $15k and then in a short time spend an additional
$15K
> to
> > > get
> > > > it right. Price is certainly not cost. Not to belabor a
> point.
> > If
> > > > you have something worth the money do the work required to
> > prove
> > > it.
> > > > I could see spending $30 for a really nicely restored older
> > coach
> > > but
> > > > it would have to be exactly what I want with the proof
there
> > of.
> > > So
> > > > I guess what I am saying is that I personally am not
looking
> > for
> > > a
> > > > fixer upper. I can do some repairs but frankly its not my
> idea
> > of
> > > > fun. Certainly others would feel differently. JEH
> > > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > On 5/4/07, davidkerryedwards wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hence, the market for older Wanderlodge's with some
> needed
> > > > repairs will
> > > > > > probably always be a little more healthy than for
> > refurbished
> > > > coaches.
> > > > >
> > > > > Kerry,
> > > > >
> > > > > I agree to an extent. Personally, I think most people
would
> > > rather
> > > > > have a refurbished coach - I know I looked for one that
was
> > > > advertised
> > > > > as not having any problems. The disconnect between buyer
> and
> > > seller
> > > > > comes in price: Most buyers aren't willing to pay a
premium
> > for
> > > this
> > > > > work.
> > > > >
> > > > > In my search, I found that people were tending to
> > sell "average"
> > > > > coaches in a certain price range - what I
> considered "market
> > > price".
> > > > > Then there were the occasional "refurbished" coaches
where
> > folks
> > > > > wanted twenty grand above "market price". I wasn't going
to
> > pay
> > > > that.
> > > > > In fact, I wasn't going to pay "market price" for a coach
> > with
> > > a lot
> > > > > of problems, either.
> > > > >
> > > > > As a buyer, here's how it worked for me: A good coach
with
> > > nothing
> > > > > wrong commands full market value, perhaps slightly more.
In
> > my
> > > > range I
> > > > > identified mid eighties PT-40s and the market value I
came
> to
> > > was
> > > > > about $50,000. Now, I wasn't going to pay full market
value
> > for
> > > a
> > > > > coach with a lot of issues. Something that needed major
> work
> > I
> > > might
> > > > > have paid $35k for, but sellers still thought they could
> get
> > > $50k.
> > > > On
> > > > > the flip side, many "perfect" coaches, folks were wanting
> > $80k.
> > > > >
> > > > > When all was said and done I did find a very good coach
> with
> > > almost
> > > > no
> > > > > problems (few things here and there, but they all have
> those)
> > > right
> > > > > near what I considered to be fair market value. This
tells
> me
> > > that
> > > > > those wanting $80k for their similar coaches are high, as
> are
> > > those
> > > > > wanting $50k for something that needs $20k worth of work
to
> > > make it
> > > > > half as nice as mine.
> > > > >
> > > > > So, there's my two cents worth.
> > > > >
> > > > > -Ryan
> > > > > '86 PT-40 8V92
> > > > > Tri-Cities, WA
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> >
>