Engine Swap

[Mike Hohnstein]

Reviva, yeah that's the creeps I got my 250 hp turbo engine from. 4000 miles
later the damn injector pump quit and they wouldn't warrentee 'cause it was a
month over a year. On the plus side the engine it's self has been a good runner
and pretty good on oil consumption. I had to have the pump installed on the
road, cost 4 grand, been stellar since that. Deal was, I saved 4 grand on the
gypo reman compared to a Cat engine. Guess I was fated to spend the 10 grand.
Hope you have better luck.
MH
----- Original Message -----
From: susanmarycamilleri
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 8:23 PM
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Engine swap


I finished ny engine swap today. I replaced the original 3206NA with
a reman 3208 from Reviva ( see http://www.reviva.com). While I had the
engine out I replaced and repaired seberal other things. I installed
a new starter (Elreg distributors ltd $221 for a new starter) a new
Power steering pump (from Hydra steer $518 - Eaton RP1G). Also
replaced the transmission filter and fluid. I sand blasted the
pullies and several engine pieces that I had to swap over. I also did
the swing rad mod. I used #12 hydrolic hoses and fittings in order to
keep the 5-8 ID of the original lines. I read that if you go to 1-2ID
hoses I read that the flow rate goes from 17GPM to 11GPM. The hoses
were expensive $260 and are rated to 3000psi which is way overkill.

The engine change out was not that difficult. After removing the rad,
dog house, etc the engine had to be lifted in order for the exhaust
manifolds to clear the main frame rails, then it was straight out the
front. There is only about 1 eighth on an inch on either side. The
rubber fuel lines from the frame of the bus the the engine were in
bad shape. If you ave a bus the same vintage you might want to check
them. Power steering supply line (low pres) was also in bad shape.

New engine has the 3 ring piston. Initial start was immediate as they
run their engines before they are shipped. Noticiable difference in
the amount of white smoke on a cold start. Also engine is quieter. I
think that my old engine has a bit of piston slap noise and prob some
valve train noise.

I have not had it on the road yet but am looking forward to see if
there is a power difference.

Pete
Prairie Dog
78 Fc 35 foot
Courtenay BC





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Curt Sprenger]

Pete,
Thank you for the update. Much appreciated. You are one of those make it
work guys. I love it. Thanks for sharing.

On Jan 8, 2008 6:23 PM, susanmarycamilleri
wrote:

> I finished ny engine swap today. I replaced the original 3206NA with
> a reman 3208 from Reviva ( see http://www.reviva.com). While I had the
> engine out I replaced and repaired seberal other things. I installed
> a new starter (Elreg distributors ltd $221 for a new starter) a new
> Power steering pump (from Hydra steer $518 - Eaton RP1G). Also
> replaced the transmission filter and fluid. I sand blasted the
> pullies and several engine pieces that I had to swap over. I also did
> the swing rad mod. I used #12 hydrolic hoses and fittings in order to
> keep the 5-8 ID of the original lines. I read that if you go to 1-2ID
> hoses I read that the flow rate goes from 17GPM to 11GPM. The hoses
> were expensive $260 and are rated to 3000psi which is way overkill.
>
> The engine change out was not that difficult. After removing the rad,
> dog house, etc the engine had to be lifted in order for the exhaust
> manifolds to clear the main frame rails, then it was straight out the
> front. There is only about 1 eighth on an inch on either side. The
> rubber fuel lines from the frame of the bus the the engine were in
> bad shape. If you ave a bus the same vintage you might want to check
> them. Power steering supply line (low pres) was also in bad shape.
>
> New engine has the 3 ring piston. Initial start was immediate as they
> run their engines before they are shipped. Noticiable difference in
> the amount of white smoke on a cold start. Also engine is quieter. I
> think that my old engine has a bit of piston slap noise and prob some
> valve train noise.
>
> I have not had it on the road yet but am looking forward to see if
> there is a power difference.
>
> Pete
> Prairie Dog
> 78 Fc 35 foot
> Courtenay BC
>
>
>



--
Curt Sprenger
1987 PT38 8V92 "MacAttack Racing"
Anaheim Hills, CA


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Mike Hohnstein]

I probably should expand on the pump failure. I was able to provide a core for
the Cat dealer and keep the failed unit from my engine. Took it to my local
fuel shop and dissected the cripple. It appeared the "tech" in the reviva fuel
injection dept? attempted to reuse the tin cover that surrounds the governor
weights on the pump. Cat requires a new cover on every reassembly, special tool
too. When the "tech" attempted to reuse the cover he deformed it enough that
the weights contacted it and wore thru the material, spreading metallic dust
thru out the pump and fuel system. The FC quit on the Pennsy Turnpike east of
Pittsburg. Just shut off, I was lucky to get off the road and coast down an off
ramp and clear the toll booth. The interesting thing is the failure could have
resulted in a "run away". Ponder that if you will, old diesel running a WOT
until nuclear melt down. It is a shame how one lazy or stupid person and cause
so much havoc by cutting a corner. And of course it is sad that the Reviva
entity would not stand by their product. I purchased it through Badger Ford
Truck in Milwaukee, they do a lot of volume with the Minneapolis store, but they
wouldn't thing for my deal. I could never recommend anything but a Cat reman
for the 3208 as long as they are going to support them. After that there won't
be any other options but the independents.
MH
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Hohnstein
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 9:59 PM
Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Engine swap


Reviva, yeah that's the creeps I got my 250 hp turbo engine from. 4000 miles
later the damn injector pump quit and they wouldn't warrentee 'cause it was a
month over a year. On the plus side the engine it's self has been a good runner
and pretty good on oil consumption. I had to have the pump installed on the
road, cost 4 grand, been stellar since that. Deal was, I saved 4 grand on the
gypo reman compared to a Cat engine. Guess I was fated to spend the 10 grand.
Hope you have better luck.
MH
----- Original Message -----
From: susanmarycamilleri
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 8:23 PM
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Engine swap

I finished ny engine swap today. I replaced the original 3206NA with
a reman 3208 from Reviva ( see http://www.reviva.com). While I had the
engine out I replaced and repaired seberal other things. I installed
a new starter (Elreg distributors ltd $221 for a new starter) a new
Power steering pump (from Hydra steer $518 - Eaton RP1G). Also
replaced the transmission filter and fluid. I sand blasted the
pullies and several engine pieces that I had to swap over. I also did
the swing rad mod. I used #12 hydrolic hoses and fittings in order to
keep the 5-8 ID of the original lines. I read that if you go to 1-2ID
hoses I read that the flow rate goes from 17GPM to 11GPM. The hoses
were expensive $260 and are rated to 3000psi which is way overkill.

The engine change out was not that difficult. After removing the rad,
dog house, etc the engine had to be lifted in order for the exhaust
manifolds to clear the main frame rails, then it was straight out the
front. There is only about 1 eighth on an inch on either side. The
rubber fuel lines from the frame of the bus the the engine were in
bad shape. If you ave a bus the same vintage you might want to check
them. Power steering supply line (low pres) was also in bad shape.

New engine has the 3 ring piston. Initial start was immediate as they
run their engines before they are shipped. Noticiable difference in
the amount of white smoke on a cold start. Also engine is quieter. I
think that my old engine has a bit of piston slap noise and prob some
valve train noise.

I have not had it on the road yet but am looking forward to see if
there is a power difference.

Pete
Prairie Dog
78 Fc 35 foot
Courtenay BC

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Ernest Ekberg]

Randy Dupree and his buddy Woody have taken on a major project. Today
they began an engine and tranny transplant on Woody's 1990 Bluebird
Wanderlodge SP. The original 300hp Turbo CAT 3208 and ZF tranny are
being swapped out for a 300hp Turbo Cummins 8.3 and 6 speed Allison
trannny. Work began this morning at 1030am and by 3pm they had the
engine and tranny out. It would have been out earlier if they hadn't
stopped to argue how best to do it. This project will require serious
fabrication including new designs for exhaust, motor mounts, radiator
mounting etc to accomodate an engine that is 8 inches longer than the
original.
More information and photos as soon as I receive them.
Ernie- 83PT40 in Texas-same old 6v92

[Henry Jay Hannigan]

WHY swap a 300hp turbo for a 300hp turbo??? am I missing something??
Seems a 400hp turbo would make more sense for all that work, but then
what do I know?? Not much. I imagine Randy knows what he is
doing.....Cought my eye because I have a 90 SP that could use a little
more ZIP on the hills...

Getting ready for News Years at the Sydney Bridge....
Regards,
Hank & Naty
90SP36..tucked away in Vegas








--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Ernest Ekberg"
wrote:
>
> Randy Dupree and his buddy Woody have taken on a major project. Today
> they began an engine and tranny transplant on Woody's 1990 Bluebird
> Wanderlodge SP. The original 300hp Turbo CAT 3208 and ZF tranny are
> being swapped out for a 300hp Turbo Cummins 8.3 and 6 speed Allison
> trannny. Work began this morning at 1030am and by 3pm they had the
> engine and tranny out. It would have been out earlier if they hadn't
> stopped to argue how best to do it. This project will require serious
> fabrication including new designs for exhaust, motor mounts, radiator
> mounting etc to accomodate an engine that is 8 inches longer than the
> original.
> More information and photos as soon as I receive them.
> Ernie- 83PT40 in Texas-same old 6v92
>

[Richard Gideon]

Hi Hank: Woody's 8.3 Cummins transplant from the donor firetruck is
rated at 330hp...and the Cummins will eliminate the diesel smoke to
some extent. And additionally Woody likes the Allison 3060
Transmission.

Enjoy the Harbor Bridge one New Years,

Happy New Year
Dick Gideon
1989 35FC
Rolla, MO

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Henry Jay Hannigan"
wrote:
>
> WHY swap a 300hp turbo for a 300hp turbo??? am I missing
something??
> Seems a 400hp turbo would make more sense for all that work, but
then
> what do I know?? Not much. I imagine Randy knows what he is
> doing.....Cought my eye because I have a 90 SP that could use a
little
> more ZIP on the hills...
>
> Getting ready for News Years at the Sydney Bridge....
> Regards,
> Hank & Naty
> 90SP36..tucked away in Vegas
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Ernest Ekberg"
> wrote:
> >
> > Randy Dupree and his buddy Woody have taken on a major project.
Today
> > they began an engine and tranny transplant on Woody's 1990
Bluebird
> > Wanderlodge SP. The original 300hp Turbo CAT 3208 and ZF tranny
are
> > being swapped out for a 300hp Turbo Cummins 8.3 and 6 speed
Allison
> > trannny. Work began this morning at 1030am and by 3pm they had
the
> > engine and tranny out. It would have been out earlier if they
hadn't
> > stopped to argue how best to do it. This project will require
serious
> > fabrication including new designs for exhaust, motor mounts,
radiator
> > mounting etc to accomodate an engine that is 8 inches longer than
the
> > original.
> > More information and photos as soon as I receive them.
> > Ernie- 83PT40 in Texas-same old 6v92
> >
>

[rwoodysurplus]

HEY GUYS,

sure been working hard to get this engine in..thanks for all the help
with the BMC info. you can see the pic here as its easier for me to
post them.

http://www.wanderlodgeownersgroup.com/fo...php?t=2063

woody
90 sp
Bertha conversion
--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Gideon"
wrote:
>
> Hi Hank: Woody's 8.3 Cummins transplant from the donor firetruck is
> rated at 330hp...and the Cummins will eliminate the diesel smoke to
> some extent. And additionally Woody likes the Allison 3060
> Transmission.
>
> Enjoy the Harbor Bridge one New Years,
>
> Happy New Year
> Dick Gideon
> 1989 35FC
> Rolla, MO
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Henry Jay Hannigan"
> wrote:
> >
> > WHY swap a 300hp turbo for a 300hp turbo??? am I missing
> something??
> > Seems a 400hp turbo would make more sense for all that work, but
> then
> > what do I know?? Not much. I imagine Randy knows what he is
> > doing.....Cought my eye because I have a 90 SP that could use a
> little
> > more ZIP on the hills...
> >
> > Getting ready for News Years at the Sydney Bridge....
> > Regards,
> > Hank & Naty
> > 90SP36..tucked away in Vegas
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Ernest Ekberg"
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Randy Dupree and his buddy Woody have taken on a major project.
> Today
> > > they began an engine and tranny transplant on Woody's 1990
> Bluebird
> > > Wanderlodge SP. The original 300hp Turbo CAT 3208 and ZF tranny
> are
> > > being swapped out for a 300hp Turbo Cummins 8.3 and 6 speed
> Allison
> > > trannny. Work began this morning at 1030am and by 3pm they had
> the
> > > engine and tranny out. It would have been out earlier if they
> hadn't
> > > stopped to argue how best to do it. This project will require
> serious
> > > fabrication including new designs for exhaust, motor mounts,
> radiator
> > > mounting etc to accomodate an engine that is 8 inches longer than
> the
> > > original.
> > > More information and photos as soon as I receive them.
> > > Ernie- 83PT40 in Texas-same old 6v92
> > >
> >
>

[Chuck Wheeler]

I'm sure you have thought of this, but the picture of the installed Cummins has a fan that would try to pull air in from the rear. There is a low pressure area behind a moving vehicle that would cause the natural flow to be the other way. Are you going to change the fan?

- Chuck Wheeler-

1982 FC 31SB Fort Worth TX

---

From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rwoodysurplus
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 8:04 PM
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Engine swap

HEY GUYS,

sure been working hard to get this engine in..thanks for all the help
with the BMC info. you can see the pic here as its easier for me to
post them.

http://www.wanderlodgeownersgroup.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2063

woody
90 sp
Bertha conversion
--- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", "Richard Gideon"
.> wrote:
>
> Hi Hank: Woody's 8.3 Cummins transplant from the donor firetruck is
> rated at 330hp...and the Cummins will eliminate the diesel smoke to
> some extent. And additionally Woody likes the Allison 3060
> Transmission.
>
> Enjoy the Harbor Bridge one New Years,
>
> Happy New Year
> Dick Gideon
> 1989 35FC
> Rolla, MO
>
> --- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", "Henry Jay Hannigan"
> wrote:
> >
> > WHY swap a 300hp turbo for a 300hp turbo??? am I missing
> something??
> > Seems a 400hp turbo would make more sense for all that work, but
> then
> > what do I know?? Not much. I imagine Randy knows what he is
> > doing.....Cought my eye because I have a 90 SP that could use a
> little
> > more ZIP on the hills...
> >
> > Getting ready for News Years at the Sydney Bridge....
> > Regards,
> > Hank & Naty
> > 90SP36..tucked away in Vegas
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", "Ernest Ekberg"
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > Randy Dupree and his buddy Woody have taken on a major project.
> Today
> > > they began an engine and tranny transplant on Woody's 1990
> Bluebird
> > > Wanderlodge SP. The original 300hp Turbo CAT 3208 and ZF tranny
> are
> > > being swapped out for a 300hp Turbo Cummins 8.3 and 6 speed
> Allison
> > > trannny. Work began this morning at 1030am and by 3pm they had
> the
> > > engine and tranny out. It would have been out earlier if they
> hadn't
> > > stopped to argue how best to do it. This project will require
> serious
> > > fabrication including new designs for exhaust, motor mounts,
> radiator
> > > mounting etc to accomodate an engine that is 8 inches longer than
> the
> > > original.
> > > More information and photos as soon as I receive them.
> > > Ernie- 83PT40 in Texas-same old 6v92
> > >
> >
>

[rwoodysurplus]

yes you are right--GOOD CATCH~!

going to try that ...pushers suck air from the side

why not the rear????

A simple definition of aerodynamics is the study of the flow of air
around and through a vehicle, primarily if it is in motion. To
understand this flow, you can visualize a car moving through the air.
As we all know, it takes some energy to move the car through the air,
and this energy is used to overcome a force called Drag.

Drag, in vehicle aerodynamics, is comprised primarily of two forces.
Frontal pressure is caused by the air attempting to flow around the
front of the car. As millions of air molecules approach the front
grill of the car, they begin to compress, and in doing so raise the
air pressure in front of the car. At the same time, the air molecules
travelling along the sides of the car are at atmospheric pressure, a
lower pressure compared to the molecules at the front of the car.

Just like an air tank, if the valve to the lower pressure atmosphere
outside the tank is opened, the air molecules will naturally flow to
the lower pressure area, eventually equalizing the pressure inside and
outside the tank. The same rules apply to cars. The compressed
molecules of air naturally seek a way out of the high pressure zone in
front of the car, and they find it around the sides, top and bottom of
the car. See the diagram below.

Diagram of 'Front Pressure'

Rear vacuum (a non-technical term, but very descriptive) is caused by
the "hole" left in the air as the car passes through it. To visualize
this, imagine a bus driving down a road. The blocky shape of the bus
punches a big hole in the air, with the air rushing around the body,
as mentioned above. At speeds above a crawl, the space directly behind
the bus is "empty" or like a vacuum. This empty area is a result of
the air molecules not being able to fill the hole as quickly as the
bus can make it. The air molecules attempt to fill in to this area,
but the bus is always one step ahead, and as a result, a continuous
vacuum sucks in the opposite direction of the bus. This inability to
fill the hole left by the bus is technically called Flow detachment.
See the diagram below.

Diagram of 'Rear Vacuum'

Flow detachment applies only to the "rear vacuum" portion of the drag
equation, and it is really about giving the air molecules time to
follow the contours of a car's bodywork, and to fill the hole left by
the vehicle, it's tires, it's suspension and protrusions (ie. mirrors,
roll bars). If you have witnessed the Le Mans race cars, you will have
seen how the tails of these cars tend to extend well back of the rear
wheels, and narrow when viewed from the side or top. This extra
bodywork allows the air molecules to converge back into the vaccum
smoothly along the body into the hole left by the car's cockpit, and
front area, instead of having to suddenly fill a large empty space.

The reason keeping flow attachment is so important is that the force
created by the vacuum far exceeds that created by frontal pressure,
and this can be attributed to the Turbulence created by the detachment.

Turbulence generally affects the "rear vacuum" portion of the drag
equation, but if we look at a protrusion from the race car such as a
mirror, we see a compounding effect. For instance, the air flow
detaches from the flat side of the mirror, which of course faces
toward the back of the car. The turbulence created by this detachment
can then affect the air flow to parts of the car which lie behind the
mirror. Intake ducts, for instance, function best when the air
entering them flows smoothly. Therefore, the entire length of the car
really needs to be optimized (within reason) to provide the least
amount of turbulence at high speed. See diagram below (Light green
indicates a vacuum-type area behind mirror):

Diagram of turbulence behind mirror

open for discussion!..the test will be at 70 mph on the road.
i do have another fan and will make the rad and intercoler swing and
bumper swing for easy access for repairs.


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Wheeler"
wrote:
>
> I'm sure you have thought of this, but the picture of the installed
Cummins
> has a fan that would try to pull air in from the rear. There is a low
> pressure area behind a moving vehicle that would cause the natural
flow to
> be the other way. Are you going to change the fan?
>
> - Chuck Wheeler-
> 1982 FC 31SB Fort Worth TX
>
>
> _____
>
> From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rwoodysurplus
> Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 8:04 PM
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Engine swap
>
>
>
> HEY GUYS,
>
> sure been working hard to get this engine in..thanks for all the help
> with the BMC info. you can see the pic here as its easier for me to
> post them.
>
> http://www.wanderlo
> <http://www.wanderlodgeownersgroup.com/fo...php?t=2063>
> dgeownersgroup.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2063
>
> woody
> 90 sp
> Bertha conversion
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@
> yahoogroups.com, "Richard Gideon"
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Hank: Woody's 8.3 Cummins transplant from the donor firetruck is
> > rated at 330hp...and the Cummins will eliminate the diesel smoke to
> > some extent. And additionally Woody likes the Allison 3060
> > Transmission.
> >
> > Enjoy the Harbor Bridge one New Years,
> >
> > Happy New Year
> > Dick Gideon
> > 1989 35FC
> > Rolla, MO
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@
> yahoogroups.com, "Henry Jay Hannigan"
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > WHY swap a 300hp turbo for a 300hp turbo??? am I missing
> > something??
> > > Seems a 400hp turbo would make more sense for all that work, but
> > then
> > > what do I know?? Not much. I imagine Randy knows what he is
> > > doing.....Cought my eye because I have a 90 SP that could use a
> > little
> > > more ZIP on the hills...
> > >
> > > Getting ready for News Years at the Sydney Bridge....
> > > Regards,
> > > Hank & Naty
> > > 90SP36..tucked away in Vegas
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@
> yahoogroups.com, "Ernest Ekberg"
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Randy Dupree and his buddy Woody have taken on a major project.
> > Today
> > > > they began an engine and tranny transplant on Woody's 1990
> > Bluebird
> > > > Wanderlodge SP. The original 300hp Turbo CAT 3208 and ZF tranny
> > are
> > > > being swapped out for a 300hp Turbo Cummins 8.3 and 6 speed
> > Allison
> > > > trannny. Work began this morning at 1030am and by 3pm they had
> > the
> > > > engine and tranny out. It would have been out earlier if they
> > hadn't
> > > > stopped to argue how best to do it. This project will require
> > serious
> > > > fabrication including new designs for exhaust, motor mounts,
> > radiator
> > > > mounting etc to accomodate an engine that is 8 inches longer than
> > the
> > > > original.
> > > > More information and photos as soon as I receive them.
> > > > Ernie- 83PT40 in Texas-same old 6v92
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

[Don Bradner]

On 12/17/2008 at 3:32 AM rwoodysurplus wrote:

>yes you are right--GOOD CATCH~!
>
>going to try that ...pushers suck air from the side
>
>why not the rear????

Question: "why not the rear????"

based on assumption: "pushers suck air from the side"

Have you considered the (likely) possibility that the assumption is wrong? At
least in terms of meaningful airflow?

What would that do to your question?

Don Bradner
90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"
Posting today by aircard from Needles, California
My location: http://www.bbirdmaps.com/user2.cfm?user=1