Replacement Generator
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05-15-2005, 07:41
Post: #31
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Replacement Generator
the perkins is very dated,not saying its not good,its just old,and they really
run dirty,smoking and dripping a little (ok,a lot in some cases) the real problem is when the gennies we all love or hate were built,there was no other option for engines,so we got stuck with an engine thats twice as big as needed,horsepower wise.so,what happens when you run a diesel and its not loaded ? it smokes! diesels are happy when they are working! randydupree93wb ----- Original Message ----- From: bobloomas To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 11:53 AM Subject: Re: Fw: [WanderlodgeForum] Replacement Generator Subject: Re: Fw: [WanderlodgeForum] Replacement Generator A $6000. repair bill cause me to get rid of the old outdated perkins. If the Perkins is so great why is it not still being use in new generators? Bob Loomas 1985 PT > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > > >>> * > >>> > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WanderlodgeForum/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: WanderlodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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05-15-2005, 08:49
Post: #32
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Replacement Generator
Hi Jeff,
I'm one who has, as you said, "made the move". It's been a couple years since replacing my 7.5Kw Kohler gasoline generator with a PowerTech 7.0Kw diesel, and I'm very satisfied with the unit. While I haven't had to speak with the folks at PowerTech much since the install, they were very helpful with my decision process and any questions I came up with while doing the install. It runs the Kubota 3-cyl D905. Some use the D1105. Both are very resilient tractor engines nicely matched up for generator usage. One of the best things about the newer generation of generators available for RV's is the use of technology like 4 pole generators vs. 2 pole, allowing the rpm to drop to 1800 from 3600, DC modes which allow the engine to run even quieter during times of low electrical demand, and so on. Once these units are enclosed in a nice hush box, the loudest portions are the cooling fans and exhaust. Some are using airbags to mount them on which reduces vibrations, and even more advancemants. There's a lot to shop for out there, and it can get very pricey. I used to consider about a grand a Kw installed. You can save money by finding a demo or lightly used unit and installing it yourself. Regarding power usage, I'm very happy with the 7.0Kw and will be keeping a close eye on Mike H. and Jeff as they complete the electrical changes and additions to Mike's coach. The only difference between my 33' and your 35' is the middle A/C. I think the 12.5 Kohler is more than adequate for the Wanderlodge, and certainly leaves room for a smaller capacity unit if the Perkins/Kohler needs to be replaced. The SP's and newer FC's are running the 8.0 Onan without any problems that I've heard of. Again, only one less A/C. I remember standing over my old generator wondering if it was worth it to pour money into it only to have a 20 year old unit with new parts, so I know what you're going through. I came up with aobut 1500 dollars in parts I needed, and then would I be having fun on vacation or fiddling with it? The main deciding factor was that I earn my vacations and want to spend them worry free with my family. So I did it. No regrets. Good luck with your decision. Gary Miller 83 FC 33 Wauwatosa, WI --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff August" wrote: > Today while removing the Perkins motor to replace the seals on it we > got to thinking, does it pay to even do the job on a generator with > more than 5500 hours on it? We wonder if all we will be doing is fixing > this thing, and would the money be better spent in the purchase of a > new Onan 8000 quiet deisel? Is this a good route to go and is a 8000 > big enough, its 240 pounds lighter than a 10,000 or a 12,500 watt Onan. > Will it fit in the tray and can it be wired into the coach as it is? > Looking for comments & suggestions by those who have made this move. > > Jeff & Michelle August > 1980 FC35RB > Plymouth, WI |
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05-15-2005, 12:41
Post: #33
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Replacement Generator
The Perkins/Kohler was a good genset choice a quarter-of-a-century
ago, wasn't much available in a diesel genset for RV use. The Yanmar engine replaced the Perkins in '86, anyone I've met who had both has rated the Yanmar above the Perkins, quieter and cleaner as well as very reliable. In '87 the FC went to a much quieter Onan genset which has been very reliable except for BB's choice of radiator mounting. True, the Perkins/Kohler will do the job for many hours of use if properly used and maintained, albeit rather inefficiently. Unfortunately the 25years of getting condensation and in many cases salt-air in the windings etc. have likely caused it more grief than has the hours of use. Add old oil and coolant to that, and long periods of non-use, and you have something that is less than completely dependable, which is why a used one would be worth significantly less than the ~$12,000 of a new 12.5kw diesel RV genset. If you are going to remove it, and rebuild it for re-installation, it would IMO be prudent to have the generator portion serviced also. Re- building the brushes and brusholders, new bearings, and a "dip and bake" on the rotor and stator will likely make it a new-old generator. Add to that the updated voltage regulator and a re-wiring of the control box, you should have an electrically perfect generator. That with the engine service however might cost more than the genset is worth, and it will still be a stinky, smokey, inefficient, noisy, heavy genset which is probably nearing the end of parts availability. As Gary mentioned, something in the 8kw range will probably serve an FC pretty well, as BB decided in '87 when they took the 12.5kw genset and center A/C out of the standard equipment list on the FC35. It will be quieter, which your neighbors will apreciate, and run closer to .6gph on fuel also, and you can use the rest of the generator tray for something more useful. - Jeff Miller http://www.wanderlodge.net http://www.millercoachworks.com > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff August" > wrote: > > Today while removing the Perkins motor to replace the seals on it we > > got to thinking, does it pay to even do the job on a generator with > > more than 5500 hours on it? We wonder if all we will be doing is > fixing > > this thing, and would the money be better spent in the purchase of a > > new Onan 8000 quiet deisel? Is this a good route to go and is a 8000 > > big enough, its 240 pounds lighter than a 10,000 or a 12,500 watt > Onan. > > Will it fit in the tray and can it be wired into the coach as it > is? > > Looking for comments & suggestions by those who have made this move. > > > > Jeff & Michelle August > > 1980 FC35RB > > Plymouth, WI |
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05-15-2005, 13:10
Post: #34
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Replacement Generator
Randy, interesting story. However, I'm not confident that it is credible. If you
read Detroit Diesel's service bulletin regarding their lube oil recommendations, they discuss extended drain intervals, as I recall in the context of using synthetic oils. In any case, Detroit will allow extended oil drain intervals IF SUPPORTED BY OIL SAMPLING. In addition, several years ago, I was aware of a test program in which Mobil Delvac 1, a multi-vis oil and as such not normally approved for the 92 Series engines, was used in a fleet of 92 Series Detroit Diesels. Detroit and Mobil both relyed on oil sampling to judge whether the Delvac 1 was suitable. The oil performed superbly, but Detroit never published approval for it. Beancounterman --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, randydupree > oil samples! heres a good story on that,on the TDR forum a guy bought a new dodge diesel truck,and he decided to send oil samples off instead of changing oil every 3000 miles or so,so,he sends 3 samples off every time to 3 different places to get them analized,blackstone labs,cat and another one.all 3 came back everytime with three completely different reports,none of them were the same,not even close.this thread went on for years,up to 20,000 miles on the truck before the guy gave up.he said that its way better to change your oil and trust that the new oil was good rather than trust the labs to do it right and get you back the results from your oil,not someone else's..i change my oil.its way cheaper in the end,IMHO....randydupree93wb > ----- Original Message ----- > From: beancounterman > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 9:47 AM > Subject: Re: Fw: [WanderlodgeForum] Replacement Generator > > > Some quick comments. > > I have about 30 years experience around big coaches with diesel generators. In the early > years, these gensets were virtually all Perkins powered. Later, Yamar has been the little > diesel engine of choice. Anyway, both brands have been almost bullet-proof from the > reliability standpoint. In addition, they are long-lived to the point that very few get to the > point of needing overhaul or replacement. I'd guess that in most cases, 10,000 hours is > attainable, maybe more. > > Regarding oil change intervals, how about doing oil sampling to validate extended change > intervals rather than guessing? I think any large generator or truck shop can take periodic > samples and send them to a good lab until you validate an extended interval. I'd also > suggest using a major brand diesel synthetic lube oil like Mobil Delvac 1 if you're going for > extended change intervals. > > Beancounterman |
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05-15-2005, 13:44
Post: #35
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Replacement Generator
thats up to you! i don't know if the labs are credible,so i change my oil.its
just one thing less to worrie about! i used to do oil samples on 100 trucks a year,but,i still changed the oil every month..oil is not that expensive!! my two cents..(smile!!) randydupree93wb ----- Original Message ----- From: beancounterman To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 9:10 PM Subject: Re: Fw: [WanderlodgeForum] Replacement Generator Randy, interesting story. However, I'm not confident that it is credible. If you read Detroit Diesel's service bulletin regarding their lube oil recommendations, they discuss extended drain intervals, as I recall in the context of using synthetic oils. In any case, Detroit will allow extended oil drain intervals IF SUPPORTED BY OIL SAMPLING. In addition, several years ago, I was aware of a test program in which Mobil Delvac 1, a multi-vis oil and as such not normally approved for the 92 Series engines, was used in a fleet of 92 Series Detroit Diesels. Detroit and Mobil both relyed on oil sampling to judge whether the Delvac 1 was suitable. The oil performed superbly, but Detroit never published approval for it. Beancounterman --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, randydupree > oil samples! heres a good story on that,on the TDR forum a guy bought a new dodge diesel truck,and he decided to send oil samples off instead of changing oil every 3000 miles or so,so,he sends 3 samples off every time to 3 different places to get them analized,blackstone labs,cat and another one.all 3 came back everytime with three completely different reports,none of them were the same,not even close.this thread went on for years,up to 20,000 miles on the truck before the guy gave up.he said that its way better to change your oil and trust that the new oil was good rather than trust the labs to do it right and get you back the results from your oil,not someone else's..i change my oil.its way cheaper in the end,IMHO....randydupree93wb > ----- Original Message ----- > From: beancounterman > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 9:47 AM > Subject: Re: Fw: [WanderlodgeForum] Replacement Generator > > > Some quick comments. > > I have about 30 years experience around big coaches with diesel generators. In the early > years, these gensets were virtually all Perkins powered. Later, Yamar has been the little > diesel engine of choice. Anyway, both brands have been almost bullet-proof from the > reliability standpoint. In addition, they are long-lived to the point that very few get to the > point of needing overhaul or replacement. I'd guess that in most cases, 10,000 hours is > attainable, maybe more. > > Regarding oil change intervals, how about doing oil sampling to validate extended change > intervals rather than guessing? I think any large generator or truck shop can take periodic > samples and send them to a good lab until you validate an extended interval. I'd also > suggest using a major brand diesel synthetic lube oil like Mobil Delvac 1 if you're going for > extended change intervals. > > Beancounterman ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WanderlodgeForum/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: WanderlodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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05-16-2005, 00:19
Post: #36
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Replacement Generator
One final comment, and then I'll shut up! ;-)
I agree that oil is relatively cheap. Detroit and Cat both recommend changing oil in coach engines at 15,000 miles intervals, a couple of times a year or less for most. This is no big hassle, and complete periodic maintenance with a good inspection twice a year is prudent for a lot of reasons. But changing the lube oil in a gen set every 150 hours, like manufacturers recommend, can be a real pain. If one is running the gen set 24/7, for example, that is every six days! At 8 hours a day, it takes less than three weeks to reach 150 hours. If the use of synthetic lube oils supported with oil sampling allows 300 hour or 500 hour drain intervals (roughly equivilent to 18,000 to 30,000 miles), this would be a real benefit and convenience for a significant number of folks, those who put a lot of hours on their gen sets. (Newell uses synthetic Mobil for the initial factory fill and at their service center for both gen sets and main engines. They don't recommend extended drain intervals because of possible conflicts with original equipment warranties, but do use synthetics as added insurance against owners going over 150 hours or 15,000 miles without realizing the consequences.) I also think the gen set manufacturers are a little behind the eight ball regarding the possibility of extending the drain intervals using modern lubricants. The last time I looked at a Kohler owner's manual, I recall that the lube oil recommendation recommended a lube oil SAE classification that was long obsolete, about ten years out of date! Anyway, I now have a project. I'm going to dig into the current recommendations of Cat and Yanmar/Kohler/Power Tech to see if they will bless extended drain intervals if synthetics are used, with or without oil sampling. Bean --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, randydupree > thats up to you! i don't know if the labs are credible,so i change my oil.its just one thing less to worrie about! i used to do oil samples on 100 trucks a year,but,i still changed the oil every month..oil is not that expensive!! my two cents..(smile!!) randydupree93wb > ----- Original Message ----- > From: beancounterman > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 9:10 PM > Subject: Re: Fw: [WanderlodgeForum] Replacement Generator > > > Randy, interesting story. However, I'm not confident that it is credible. If you read Detroit > Diesel's service bulletin regarding their lube oil recommendations, they discuss extended > drain intervals, as I recall in the context of using synthetic oils. In any case, Detroit will > allow extended oil drain intervals IF SUPPORTED BY OIL SAMPLING. In addition, several > years ago, I was aware of a test program in which Mobil Delvac 1, a multi-vis oil and as > such not normally approved for the 92 Series engines, was used in a fleet of 92 Series > Detroit Diesels. Detroit and Mobil both relyed on oil sampling to judge whether the Delvac > 1 was suitable. The oil performed superbly, but Detroit never published approval for it. > > Beancounterman > > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, randydupree > > oil samples! heres a good story on that,on the TDR forum a guy bought a new dodge > diesel truck,and he decided to send oil samples off instead of changing oil every 3000 > miles or so,so,he sends 3 samples off every time to 3 different places to get them > analized,blackstone labs,cat and another one.all 3 came back everytime with three > completely different reports,none of them were the same,not even close.this thread went > on for years,up to 20,000 miles on the truck before the guy gave up.he said that its way > better to change your oil and trust that the new oil was good rather than trust the labs to > do it right and get you back the results from your oil,not someone else's..i change my > oil.its way cheaper in the end,IMHO....randydupree93wb > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: beancounterman > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 9:47 AM > > Subject: Re: Fw: [WanderlodgeForum] Replacement Generator > > > > > > Some quick comments. > > > > I have about 30 years experience around big coaches with diesel generators. In the > early > > years, these gensets were virtually all Perkins powered. Later, Yamar has been the little > > diesel engine of choice. Anyway, both brands have been almost bullet-proof from the > > reliability standpoint. In addition, they are long-lived to the point that very few get to > the > > point of needing overhaul or replacement. I'd guess that in most cases, 10,000 hours > is > > attainable, maybe more. > > > > Regarding oil change intervals, how about doing oil sampling to validate extended > change > > intervals rather than guessing? I think any large generator or truck shop can take > periodic > > samples and send them to a good lab until you validate an extended interval. I'd also > > suggest using a major brand diesel synthetic lube oil like Mobil Delvac 1 if you're going > for > > extended change intervals. > > > > Beancounterman > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > Yahoo! Groups Links > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WanderlodgeForum/ > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > WanderlodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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05-16-2005, 03:05
Post: #37
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Replacement Generator
> But changing the lube oil in a gen set every 150 hours, like
manufacturers recommend, can be a real pain. If one is running the gen set 24/7, for example, that is every six days! At 8 hours a day, it takes less than three weeks to reach 150 hours.< A few years ago I spent 10 days on a tour bus (It was an Eagle with an "entertainer" interior). The diesel genset ran 24/7 except for two shutdowns to change oil. During the shutdowns, the bus interior ran off inverters powered by the 6V92 batteries and alternator. These busses are in service continuously. Emmylou Harris had just moved out of ours following 6 weeks on tour out west. I asked our operator about the frequent genset oil changes. His answer was that 150 hour oil changes had proved to be both the cheapest option in the long run, and the best approach for reliabilty. Bob Griesel WA |
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05-16-2005, 03:40
Post: #38
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Replacement Generator
Did you get your brake retarted installed? And do you have a gas driven
generator? Bob how often do you suggest that you light oft the generator plant & how long do you let it run if just for maintaining the engine? Jon Lechich' 78 Wanderlodge freewill2008 > But changing the lube oil in a gen set every 150 hours, like manufacturers recommend, can be a real pain. If one is running the gen set 24/7, for example, that is every six days! At 8 hours a day, it takes less than three weeks to reach 150 hours.< A few years ago I spent 10 days on a tour bus (It was an Eagle with an "entertainer" interior). The diesel genset ran 24/7 except for two shutdowns to change oil. During the shutdowns, the bus interior ran off inverters powered by the 6V92 batteries and alternator. These busses are in service continuously. Emmylou Harris had just moved out of ours following 6 weeks on tour out west. I asked our operator about the frequent genset oil changes. His answer was that 150 hour oil changes had proved to be both the cheapest option in the long run, and the best approach for reliabilty. Bob Griesel WA Yahoo! Groups Links One of my favorite sayings goes! "You never own anything, everything owns you!" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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05-16-2005, 04:44
Post: #39
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Replacement Generator
I try to run both engines every couple weeks. With the genset I like
to get the exhaust system fully heated up so any residual water will evaporate. The biggest issue with the gas Kohler is fuel. I don't run it enough to keep fresh gas in the tank. Fuel stabilizer helps. The bus goes in a week from today for the retarder install. All the electrical work is done; the installer will do the driveline work. The job is running late. Better late than never. Bob Griesel '84 FC31 WLII WA --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, jon lechich wrote: > Did you get your brake retarted installed? And do you have a gas driven generator? Bob how often do you suggest that you light oft the generator plant & how long do you let it run if just for maintaining the engine? > > Jon Lechich' > 78 Wanderlodge > > freewill2008 > > > But changing the lube oil in a gen set every 150 hours, like > manufacturers recommend, can be a real pain. If one is running the > gen set 24/7, for example, that is every six days! At 8 hours a day, > it takes less than three weeks to reach 150 hours.< > > > A few years ago I spent 10 days on a tour bus (It was an Eagle with > an "entertainer" interior). The diesel genset ran 24/7 except for > two shutdowns to change oil. During the shutdowns, the bus interior > ran off inverters powered by the 6V92 batteries and alternator. > These busses are in service continuously. Emmylou Harris had just > moved out of ours following 6 weeks on tour out west. > > I asked our operator about the frequent genset oil changes. His > answer was that 150 hour oil changes had proved to be both the > cheapest option in the long run, and the best approach for reliabilty. > > > Bob Griesel WA > |
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