Installing a Splendide
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03-21-2007, 17:34
Post: #1
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Installing a Splendide
I've found that having/using a washer/dryer in an RV is somewhat controversial.
Just today, a gentleman I met said that, while his was plumbed for one, he would never install one because his wife says "I don't go on vacations to do laundry!" I suspect my wife would do laundry on a vacation, but we really don't consider ourselves "vacationers." We spend roughly 6 months out of each year traveling, and sometimes going home is the vacation! washer/dryer is absolutely required. Our first SOB was plumbed, and we installed ourselves with the biggest issue being just getting it in. Our second (most recent) had a factory-installed W/D. As we looked at PT Birds for several months it appeared that most had washer/dryers, although the majority were unvented - unacceptable but an easy swap-out. Some had them in a bay, which I was informed by SWMBO was also unacceptable. Ultimately we settled on one that had never had a W/D, and I had explicit instructions that this MUST be rectified in fairly short order. Yesterday and today were spent on this task. I wasn't willing to tackle it entirely on my own, so I engaged a local RV repair outfit, and they got the sale of the Splendide 2000S as well. I have a good relationship with them, and they are quite willing for me to work with them, which both reduces my bill and keeps me completely in the loop. I knew there were a lot of complications, primarily just getting one to fit. The only possible location was the closet in the bathroom, seen on the left in this picture: http://www.arcatapet.net/travel/images/9...3725-1.jpg with its two sliding glass doors. In the back right-hand corner of the closet is a trace containing the vent for the black tank. Behind the drawers, the drain from the kitchen enters that vent line, so we felt comfortable adding the washer effluent to the line as well. The main problem was clearance, both side-to-side, and front to back. Side-to-side the door would not open far enough to clear the left side of the W/D. The left side has to be clear, because the soap tray is flush against that side and must have room to be pulled out. This problem was solved by removing obstructions on the left door that stopped the right from fully opening. A vertical piece of plywood (carpet covered), the "button pusher" for the closet light, and the cover over the back of the latch. All peeled off with lots of trepidation about breaking the glass. Front to back clearance was not adequate because of the square trace around the vent pipe. That was removed and cut off at the top of the W/D, at which point we could just squeeze the unit in. We would have preferred the larger Splendide 2100, but the extra inch of depth was prohibitive. A 16-inch square hole was cut in the floor of the closet to facilitate access to the hot/cold water pipes, and braces were added below to support the cutout when it was replaced. After that is was a pretty straightforward install of plumbing, wiring, and dryer vent. I ended up with a cost, including Calif tax, of about $1450 for the W/D, plumbing parts, and labor. I think I probably saved about $500 by participating, and I know exactly how it is installed if anything goes wrong. Don Bradner 90 PT40 "Blue Thunder" Eureka, CA |
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03-22-2007, 00:16
Post: #2
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Installing a Splendide
I'm sure you will do well, just don't be in a hurry for the "dry" cycle to end.
It never does.MH ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Bradner To: wanderlodgeforum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 10:34 PM Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Installing a Splendide I've found that having/using a washer/dryer in an RV is somewhat controversial. Just today, a gentleman I met said that, while his was plumbed for one, he would never install one because his wife says "I don't go on vacations to do laundry!" I suspect my wife would do laundry on a vacation, but we really don't consider ourselves "vacationers." We spend roughly 6 months out of each year traveling, and sometimes going home is the vacation! washer/dryer is absolutely required. Our first SOB was plumbed, and we installed ourselves with the biggest issue being just getting it in. Our second (most recent) had a factory-installed W/D. As we looked at PT Birds for several months it appeared that most had washer/dryers, although the majority were unvented - unacceptable but an easy swap-out. Some had them in a bay, which I was informed by SWMBO was also unacceptable. Ultimately we settled on one that had never had a W/D, and I had explicit instructions that this MUST be rectified in fairly short order. Yesterday and today were spent on this task. I wasn't willing to tackle it entirely on my own, so I engaged a local RV repair outfit, and they got the sale of the Splendide 2000S as well. I have a good relationship with them, and they are quite willing for me to work with them, which both reduces my bill and keeps me completely in the loop. I knew there were a lot of complications, primarily just getting one to fit. The only possible location was the closet in the bathroom, seen on the left in this picture: http://www.arcatapet.net/travel/images/9...3725-1.jpg with its two sliding glass doors. In the back right-hand corner of the closet is a trace containing the vent for the black tank. Behind the drawers, the drain from the kitchen enters that vent line, so we felt comfortable adding the washer effluent to the line as well. The main problem was clearance, both side-to-side, and front to back. Side-to-side the door would not open far enough to clear the left side of the W/D. The left side has to be clear, because the soap tray is flush against that side and must have room to be pulled out. This problem was solved by removing obstructions on the left door that stopped the right from fully opening. A vertical piece of ply Front to back clearance was not adequate because of the square trace around the vent pipe. That was removed and cut off at the top of the W/D, at which point we could just squeeze the unit in. We would have preferred the larger Splendide 2100, but the extra inch of depth was prohibitive. A 16-inch square hole was cut in the floor of the closet to facilitate access to the hot/cold water pipes, and braces were added below to support the cutout when it was replaced. After that is was a pretty straightforward install of plumbing, wiring, and dryer vent. I ended up with a cost, including Calif tax, of about $1450 for the W/D, plumbing parts, and labor. I think I probably saved about $500 by participating, and I know exactly how it is installed if anything goes wrong. Don Bradner 90 PT40 "Blue Thunder" Eureka, CA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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03-22-2007, 05:41
Post: #3
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Installing a Splendide
Amen on that statement brother. I know when we first used our's in
our first RV it was like when are these damn towels going to get dry Michael Brundridge '92 PT40 Georgetown, TX --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Hohnstein" <MHOHNSTEIN@...> wrote: > > I'm sure you will do well, just don't be in a hurry for the "dry" cycle to end. It never does.MH > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Don Bradner > To: wanderlodgeforum@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 10:34 PM > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Installing a Splendide > > > I've found that having/using a washer/dryer in an RV is somewhat controversial. Just today, a gentleman I met said that, while his was plumbed for one, he would never install one because his wife says "I don't go on vacations to do laundry!" > > I suspect my wife would do laundry on a vacation, but we really don't consider ourselves "vacationers." We spend roughly 6 months out of each year traveling, and sometimes going home is the vacation! In any case, Joy says that a washer/dryer is absolutely required. Our first SOB was plumbed, and we installed ourselves with the biggest issue being just getting it in. Our second (most recent) had a factory-installed W/D. > > As we looked at PT Birds for several months it appeared that most had washer/dryers, although the majority were unvented - unacceptable but an easy swap-out. Some had them in a bay, which I was informed by SWMBO was also unacceptable. Ultimately we settled on one that had never had a W/D, and I had explicit instructions that this MUST be rectified in fairly short order. > > Yesterday and today were spent on this task. I wasn't willing to tackle it entirely on my own, so I engaged a local RV repair outfit, and they got the sale of the Splendide 2000S as well. I have a good relationship with them, and they are quite willing for me to work with them, which both reduces my bill and keeps me completely in the loop. > > I knew there were a lot of complications, primarily just getting one to fit. The only possible location was the closet in the bathroom, seen on the left in this picture: http://www.arcatapet.net/travel/images/9...3725-1.jpg with its two sliding glass doors. In the back right-hand corner of the closet is a trace containing the vent for the black tank. Behind the drawers, the drain from the kitchen enters that vent line, so we felt comfortable adding the washer effluent to the line as well. The main problem was clearance, both side-to-side, and front to back. Side-to- side the door would not open far enough to clear the left side of the W/D. The left side has to be clear, because the soap tray is flush against that side and must have room to be pulled out. This problem was solved by removing obstructions on the left door that stopped the right from fully opening. A vertical piece of ply > Front to back clearance was not adequate because of the square trace around the vent pipe. That was removed and cut off at the top of the W/D, at which point we could just squeeze the unit in. We would have preferred the larger Splendide 2100, but the extra inch of depth was prohibitive. > > A 16-inch square hole was cut in the floor of the closet to facilitate access to the hot/cold water pipes, and braces were added below to support the cutout when it was replaced. After that is was a pretty straightforward install of plumbing, wiring, and dryer vent. I ended up with a cost, including Calif tax, of about $1450 for the W/D, plumbing parts, and labor. I think I probably saved about $500 by participating, and I know exactly how it is installed if anything goes wrong. > > Don Bradner > 90 PT40 "Blue Thunder" > Eureka, CA > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > |
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03-22-2007, 05:41
Post: #4
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Installing a Splendide
Mike,
When someone suggested that the dryer vent can only be opened with air pressure up, I tried it. While the switch will move and the warning light illuminate, it will not open and close without air pressure. So, I aired up , opened the vent and tried the w/d that way. Much faster on the dry cycle but still lots longer than a home dryer. However, given that we use the w/d occasionally for special loads, this is much more satisfactory than when the vent was 'closed.' Tom McCarthy Poway, CA '95 PT42 --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Hohnstein" <MHOHNSTEIN@...> wrote: > > I'm sure you will do well, just don't be in a hurry for the "dry" cycle to end. It never does.MH > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Don Bradner > To: wanderlodgeforum@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 10:34 PM > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Installing a Splendide > > > I've found that having/using a washer/dryer in an RV is somewhat controversial. Just today, a gentleman I met said that, while his was plumbed for one, he would never install one because his wife says "I don't go on vacations to do laundry!" > > I suspect my wife would do laundry on a vacation, but we really don't consider ourselves "vacationers." We spend roughly 6 months out of each year traveling, and sometimes going home is the vacation! In any case, Joy says that a washer/dryer is absolutely required. Our first SOB was plumbed, and we installed ourselves with the biggest issue being just getting it in. Our second (most recent) had a factory-installed W/D. > > As we looked at PT Birds for several months it appeared that most had washer/dryers, although the majority were unvented - unacceptable but an easy swap-out. Some had them in a bay, which I was informed by SWMBO was also unacceptable. Ultimately we settled on one that had never had a W/D, and I had explicit instructions that this MUST be rectified in fairly short order. > > Yesterday and today were spent on this task. I wasn't willing to tackle it entirely on my own, so I engaged a local RV repair outfit, and they got the sale of the Splendide 2000S as well. I have a good relationship with them, and they are quite willing for me to work with them, which both reduces my bill and keeps me completely in the loop. > > I knew there were a lot of complications, primarily just getting one to fit. The only possible location was the closet in the bathroom, seen on the left in this picture: http://www.arcatapet.net/travel/images/9...3725-1.jpg with its two sliding glass doors. In the back right-hand corner of the closet is a trace containing the vent for the black tank. Behind the drawers, the drain from the kitchen enters that vent line, so we felt comfortable adding the washer effluent to the line as well. The main problem was clearance, both side-to-side, and front to back. Side-to- side the door would not open far enough to clear the left side of the W/D. The left side has to be clear, because the soap tray is flush against that side and must have room to be pulled out. This problem was solved by removing obstructions on the left door that stopped the right from fully opening. A vertical piece of ply > Front to back clearance was not adequate because of the square trace around the vent pipe. That was removed and cut off at the top of the W/D, at which point we could just squeeze the unit in. We would have preferred the larger Splendide 2100, but the extra inch of depth was prohibitive. > > A 16-inch square hole was cut in the floor of the closet to facilitate access to the hot/cold water pipes, and braces were added below to support the cutout when it was replaced. After that is was a pretty straightforward install of plumbing, wiring, and dryer vent. I ended up with a cost, including Calif tax, of about $1450 for the W/D, plumbing parts, and labor. I think I probably saved about $500 by participating, and I know exactly how it is installed if anything goes wrong. > > Don Bradner > 90 PT40 "Blue Thunder" > Eureka, CA > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > |
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03-22-2007, 06:06
Post: #5
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Installing a Splendide
Whoa ... that was quite a job. As for the un-vented dryer, I'm told
that (some) do have vents -- that it's behind the rear wheels on the street side (if the floor plan has the washer more or less on the driver's side). But, the vent uses coach air pressure to open -- which might explain the less than stellar performance when we tried out the Splendide in our coach. (By the time we were using the washer/ dryer, the air was down.) The next time it's convenient, we'll try another load or two -- with the air up -- and see if there's any improvement. (I haven't had time to try to poke around behind the wheels to see if there is a vent and/ or if it is clogged up in some way.) Still, considering the miniscule washer load and even smaller dryer load, using several washers/dryers at one time in a laundromat seems more time effective -- but "the boss" will make her own determination. Of course, "vacation" is one thing, but full or semi-full time living is quite another. Pete Masterson aeonix1@... '95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42' El Sobrante, CA On Mar 21, 2007, at 9:34 PM, Don Bradner wrote: > I've found that having/using a washer/dryer in an RV is somewhat > controversial. Just today, a gentleman I met said that, while his > was plumbed for one, he would never install one because his wife > says "I don't go on vacations to do laundry!" > <snip> > Don Bradner > 90 PT40 "Blue Thunder" > Eureka, CA > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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03-22-2007, 06:13
Post: #6
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Installing a Splendide
Just some info about our Splendide/combo. It is vented on the curb side, does
not need bus air to operate, and the wife uses it every other day or so while on the road. There are three children and the two of us. She hasn't grown anymore gray hairs over the Splendide and to date has not visited a Laundromat. It seems to work fine. Leroy Eckert 1990 WB-40"Smoke N Mirrors" Niceville, FL Signing this e-mail as if it were a love letter. ----- Original Message ----- From: Pete Masterson To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 11:06 AM Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Installing a Splendide Whoa ... that was quite a job. As for the un-vented dryer, I'm told that (some) do have vents -- that it's behind the rear wheels on the street side (if the floor plan has the washer more or less on the driver's side). But, the vent uses coach air pressure to open -- which might explain the less than stellar performance when we tried out the Splendide in our coach. (By the time we were using the washer/ dryer, the air was down.) The next time it's convenient, we'll try another load or two -- with the air up -- and see if there's any improvement. (I haven't had time to try to poke around behind the wheels to see if there is a vent and/ or if it is clogged up in some way.) Still, considering the miniscule washer load and even smaller dryer load, using several washers/dryers at one time in a laundromat seems more time effective -- but "the boss" will make her own determination. Of course, "vacation" is one thing, but full or semi-full time living is quite another. Pete Masterson aeonix1@... '95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42' El Sobrante, CA On Mar 21, 2007, at 9:34 PM, Don Bradner wrote: > I've found that having/using a washer/dryer in an RV is somewhat > controversial. Just today, a gentleman I met said that, while his > was plumbed for one, he would never install one because his wife > says "I don't go on vacations to do laundry!" > <snip> > Don Bradner > 90 PT40 "Blue Thunder" > Eureka, CA > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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03-22-2007, 07:27
Post: #7
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Installing a Splendide
On 3/22/2007 at 10:06 AM Pete Masterson wrote:
>Whoa ... that was quite a job. As for the un-vented dryer, I'm told >that (some) do have vents -- that it's behind the rear wheels on the >street side (if the floor plan has the washer more or less on the >driver's side). But, the vent uses coach air pressure to open -- >which might explain the less than stellar performance when we tried >out the Splendide in our coach. (By the time we were using the washer/ >dryer, the air was down.) Could be - it certainly wouldn't dry with the vent closed! >Still, considering the miniscule washer load and even smaller dryer >load, using several washers/dryers at one time in a laundromat seems >more time effective -- but "the boss" will make her own determination. That is part of what makes the choice controversial. Joy would do just about anything to avoid sitting around a laundromat somewhere for an hour or two. Loads run every day or nearly every day take very little time (for the person, not for the W/D!) and just part of her routine. I know one full-timer who particularly enjoys the social aspect of laundromats. >Of course, "vacation" is one thing, but full or semi-full time living >is quite another. Agreed. No problem carrying clothes for a week or two and washing nothing. Don Bradner 90 PT40 "Blue Thunder" Eureka, CA |
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03-22-2007, 07:41
Post: #8
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Installing a Splendide
Why not. We have found a secondary benefit because ours is plumbed into the
black tank.. We rarely have level readings that are incorrect. Leroy Eckert 1990 WB-40"Smoke N Mirrors" Niceville, FL ----- Original Message ----- From: Pete Masterson To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 1:40 PM Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Installing a Splendide Why not, indeed? I've seen some coaches (Prevost, mostly) with a 'compact' stacked washer and dryer. These seemed to be "apartment- sized" models. The downside is that they would take much more room (and probably use more water -- but thats not a problem when you have shore connections). A 220V dryer would require a minimum of 50A service. If you get a gas dryer, you can make it work on propane with the appropriate burner adjustments. Pete Masterson aeonix1@... '95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42' El Sobrante, CA On Mar 22, 2007, at 12:17 PM, Troy Tikalsky wrote: > Why can't a small household washer/dryer be used in the coach? > I removed a propane furnace from the back closet and the LP line is > still there along with the exhaust vents. Plumbing can be connected > thru the floor. I'm considering a European style unit where it > washes and dries in a single unit. > > Troy Tikalsky > Waconia, MN > 1986 Newell > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: mbrund > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 11:41 AM > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Installing a Splendide > > > Amen on that statement brother. I know when we first used our's in > our first RV it was like when are these damn towels going to get > dry > > Michael Brundridge > '92 PT40 > Georgetown, TX > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Hohnstein" > <MHOHNSTEIN@...> wrote: >> >> I'm sure you will do well, just don't be in a hurry for the "dry" > cycle to end. It never does.MH >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Don Bradner >> To: wanderlodgeforum@yahoogroups.com >> Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 10:34 PM >> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Installing a Splendide >> >> >> I've found that having/using a washer/dryer in an RV is somewhat > controversial. Just today, a gentleman I met said that, while his > was > plumbed for one, he would never install one because his wife says "I > don't go on vacations to do laundry!" >> > <snip> >> >> Don Bradner >> 90 PT40 "Blue Thunder" >> Eureka, CA >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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03-22-2007, 08:17
Post: #9
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Installing a Splendide
Why can't a small household washer/dryer be used in the coach?
I removed a propane furnace from the back closet and the LP line is still there along with the exhaust vents. Plumbing can be connected thru the floor. I'm considering a European style unit where it washes and dries in a single unit. Troy Tikalsky Waconia, MN 1986 Newell ----- Original Message ----- From: mbrund To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 11:41 AM Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Installing a Splendide Amen on that statement brother. I know when we first used our's in our first RV it was like when are these damn towels going to get dry Michael Brundridge '92 PT40 Georgetown, TX --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Hohnstein" <MHOHNSTEIN@...> wrote: > > I'm sure you will do well, just don't be in a hurry for the "dry" cycle to end. It never does.MH > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Don Bradner > To: wanderlodgeforum@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 10:34 PM > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Installing a Splendide > > > I've found that having/using a washer/dryer in an RV is somewhat controversial. Just today, a gentleman I met said that, while his was plumbed for one, he would never install one because his wife says "I don't go on vacations to do laundry!" > > I suspect my wife would do laundry on a vacation, but we really don't consider ourselves "vacationers." We spend roughly 6 months out of each year traveling, and sometimes going home is the vacation! In any case, Joy says that a washer/dryer is absolutely required. Our first SOB was plumbed, and we installed ourselves with the biggest issue being just getting it in. Our second (most recent) had a factory-installed W/D. > > As we looked at PT Birds for several months it appeared that most had washer/dryers, although the majority were unvented - unacceptable but an easy swap-out. Some had them in a bay, which I was informed by SWMBO was also unacceptable. Ultimately we settled on one that had never had a W/D, and I had explicit instructions that this MUST be rectified in fairly short order. > > Yesterday and today were spent on this task. I wasn't willing to tackle it entirely on my own, so I engaged a local RV repair outfit, and they got the sale of the Splendide 2000S as well. I have a good relationship with them, and they are quite willing for me to work with them, which both reduces my bill and keeps me completely in the loop. > > I knew there were a lot of complications, primarily just getting one to fit. The only possible location was the closet in the bathroom, seen on the left in this picture: http://www.arcatapet.net/travel/images/9...3725-1.jpg with its two sliding glass doors. In the back right-hand corner of the closet is a trace containing the vent for the black tank. Behind the drawers, the drain from the kitchen enters that vent line, so we felt comfortable adding the washer effluent to the line as well. The main problem was clearance, both side-to-side, and front to back. Side-to- side the door would not open far enough to clear the left side of the W/D. The left side has to be clear, because the soap tray is flush against that side and must have room to be pulled out. This problem was solved by removing obstructions on the left door that stopped the right from fully opening. A vertical piece of ply > Front to back clearance was not adequate because of the square trace around the vent pipe. That was removed and cut off at the top of the W/D, at which point we could just squeeze the unit in. We would have preferred the larger Splendide 2100, but the extra inch of depth was prohibitive. > > A 16-inch square hole was cut in the floor of the closet to facilitate access to the hot/cold water pipes, and braces were added below to support the cutout when it was replaced. After that is was a pretty straightforward install of plumbing, wiring, and dryer vent. I ended up with a cost, including Calif tax, of about $1450 for the W/D, plumbing parts, and labor. I think I probably saved about $500 by participating, and I know exactly how it is installed if anything goes wrong. > > Don Bradner > 90 PT40 "Blue Thunder" > Eureka, CA > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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03-22-2007, 08:40
Post: #10
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Installing a Splendide
Why not, indeed? I've seen some coaches (Prevost, mostly) with a
'compact' stacked washer and dryer. These seemed to be "apartment- sized" models. The downside is that they would take much more room (and probably use more water -- but thats not a problem when you have shore connections). A 220V dryer would require a minimum of 50A service. If you get a gas dryer, you can make it work on propane with the appropriate burner adjustments. Pete Masterson aeonix1@... '95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42' El Sobrante, CA On Mar 22, 2007, at 12:17 PM, Troy Tikalsky wrote: > Why can't a small household washer/dryer be used in the coach? > I removed a propane furnace from the back closet and the LP line is > still there along with the exhaust vents. Plumbing can be connected > thru the floor. I'm considering a European style unit where it > washes and dries in a single unit. > > Troy Tikalsky > Waconia, MN > 1986 Newell > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: mbrund > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 11:41 AM > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Installing a Splendide > > > Amen on that statement brother. I know when we first used our's in > our first RV it was like when are these damn towels going to get > dry > > Michael Brundridge > '92 PT40 > Georgetown, TX > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Hohnstein" > <MHOHNSTEIN@...> wrote: >> >> I'm sure you will do well, just don't be in a hurry for the "dry" > cycle to end. It never does.MH >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Don Bradner >> To: wanderlodgeforum@yahoogroups.com >> Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 10:34 PM >> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Installing a Splendide >> >> >> I've found that having/using a washer/dryer in an RV is somewhat > controversial. Just today, a gentleman I met said that, while his > was > plumbed for one, he would never install one because his wife says "I > don't go on vacations to do laundry!" >> > <snip> >> >> Don Bradner >> 90 PT40 "Blue Thunder" >> Eureka, CA >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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