Update on loss of Turbo Boost and check Transmission light

[Julia Bonser]

I would not expect or ask for 100% refund. I would ask for a partial
refund on the part of the bill that represent diagnostic time.
Evaluating the air filter as still usable led to two more service
calls on our part.
I don't think the opinions of 3 different shops disagree as much as
the first two only addressed part of the problem. After the air
filter is replace then other tests can be done to make sure the issue
is resolved. I can hope the air filter will address the problem but
won't know that until later.

For those of us who are not mechanically inclined we really need
reliable service. When we get settled I will go over the records and
figure out when the filters were last changed.

Julie Bonser
1992 WLWB PT 40'



On Dec 8, 2006, at 7:33 PM, ac7880 wrote:

> Tom,
>
> Perhaps you are jumping the starter gun? How can they demand a 100%
> refund from previous shops until the problem is actually proven to be
> solved with a simple new air filter replacement?
>
> What if they demand refunds, and the last shop's fix is not the final
> solution?
>
> Do they then refund the refund?
>
> Let them get a fix that proves out in the long haul before pointing
> fingers at previous shops and demanding money back. Maybe the 3rd
> shops diagnosis is correct--or maybe not. 3 opinions thus far -
> which one is right? The one that solves the problem over the next
> 30 days and multiple miles is likely the right one.
>
> As for me, I would never "immediately contact both shops
> for a 100% refund", until it was proven beyond a boubt they were both
> wrong - and even then I would cut slack for the hours they expended
> in good faith to help me solve the problem when I needed help.
>
> Dan
> 94 BMC 37'
>
>
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner
> wrote:
>>
>> Julie if I were in your place I would immediately contact both
> shops
>> for a 100% refund once you get the bill. If you have the number off
>> the old filter go to this site and plug it in with no
>> dashes. http://www.wixfilters.com/filterlookup/index.asp then go
>> to http://www.filter1.com and get the phone number and the chances are
> they
>> will have one in stock.
>>
>> tom warner
>> vernon center,ny
>> 1985 PT 40
>>
>>
>> At 10:44 PM 12/7/2006, you wrote:
>>> We arrived in front of Stewart and Stevenson at 10 p.m. last night.
>>> They said they would take a preliminary look today. From our
>>> description of the problem and what work had been done they thought
>>> that the issue was on the engine side of the equation. What they
>>> found was the air filter was full. Now they are trying to locate a
>>> filter to fit. They have phoned Bluebird but did not get an answer
>>> today. He hoped for a call back tomorrow.
>>>
>>> After they put in the air filter they will test the system to see
> if
>>> the problem is resolved. Now it really is aggravating to have to
> pay
>>> 3 shops to troubleshoot a problem when the first shop should have
>>> found the problem. United Engines in Oklahoma City told us that we
>>> had about 50% left on our air filter. They were wrong and
>>> consequently we had a transmission shop try to find the problem. I
>>> guess it is a good thing to have all our ground connections made
>>> secure but it was not the cause.
>>>
>>> So does Bluebird work on Friday. Does anyone know what air filter
> the
>>> 1992 WLWB 40' PT 8V92 uses?
>>> If S & S can obtain a filter we could possibly be on our way to our
>>> winter abode.
>>>
>>> Thanks for all the advice and support. The camaraderie of these
>>> lists is truly wonderful.
>>>
>>> Julie Bonser
>>> 1992 WLWB PT 40'
>>> El Paso, TX
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

[Julia Bonser]

The third shop based their diagnosis on their preliminary assessment,
they cannot complete the assessment until after the air filter is
changed. They also listened to the explanation of the problem and
asked questions to help them identify the likely problem area. They
tell us from the description the problem is likely on the engine side
rather than the transmission. They have the tools to examine the DDEC
and the transmission codes.

Based on our description two place have said that it sounds like
there was not enough air getting through for proper combustion to
take place hence the decline in the turbo boost which usually took
place on uphill inclines.

I don't understand why you think it is not the air filter as a
component of the problem. I am not negating the fuel filters or
problems with the ground connections. All 3 are necessary for proper
functioning.
I feel like there have been blind men examining the elephant.

Julie Bonser
1992 WLWB PT 40'
El Paso, TX


On Dec 8, 2006, at 8:10 PM, Gregory OConnor wrote:

> Dan, I'm with you and still dont believe it is the AirFilter. The
> third shop baced their diagnosis on the documented tasks of the other
> shops. Its kinda a "well if they ruled out A and B then lets look at
> C. It is always the last thing you do that corrects the problem, why
> go any farther. Ground connections are just one link that are a
> reasonable place for a problem. Ground wires and straps are less
> likely and harder to detect.
>
> Tom has a point also; aim high, it don't hurt to ask, squeeky wheel,
> etc. A customer once asked for a refund on my labor so I just brought
> their driveway back. He still was'nt happy.
>
> GregoryO'Connor
>
> 94ptRomolandCa
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "ac7880"
> wrote:
>>
>> Tom,
>>
>> Perhaps you are jumping the starter gun? How can they demand a
> 100%
>> refund from previous shops until the problem is actually proven to
> be
>> solved with a simple new air filter replacement?
>>
>> What if they demand refunds, and the last shop's fix is not the
> final
>> solution?
>>
>> Do they then refund the refund?
>>
>> Let them get a fix that proves out in the long haul before pointing
>> fingers at previous shops and demanding money back. Maybe the 3rd
>> shops diagnosis is correct--or maybe not. 3 opinions thus far -
>> which one is right? The one that solves the problem over the
> next
>> 30 days and multiple miles is likely the right one.
>>
>> As for me, I would never "immediately contact both shops
>> for a 100% refund", until it was proven beyond a boubt they were
> both
>> wrong - and even then I would cut slack for the hours they expended
>> in good faith to help me solve the problem when I needed help.
>>
>> Dan
>> 94 BMC 37'
>>
>>
>>
>> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Julie if I were in your place I would immediately contact both
>> shops
>>> for a 100% refund once you get the bill. If you have the number
> off
>>> the old filter go to this site and plug it in with no
>>> dashes. http://www.wixfilters.com/filterlookup/index.asp then
> go
>>> to http://www.filter1.com and get the phone number and the chances are
>> they
>>> will have one in stock.
>>>
>>> tom warner
>>> vernon center,ny
>>> 1985 PT 40
>>>
>>>
>>> At 10:44 PM 12/7/2006, you wrote:
>>>> We arrived in front of Stewart and Stevenson at 10 p.m. last
> night.
>>>> They said they would take a preliminary look today. From our
>>>> description of the problem and what work had been done they
> thought
>>>> that the issue was on the engine side of the equation. What they
>>>> found was the air filter was full. Now they are trying to locate
> a
>>>> filter to fit. They have phoned Bluebird but did not get an
> answer
>>>> today. He hoped for a call back tomorrow.
>>>>
>>>> After they put in the air filter they will test the system to
> see
>> if
>>>> the problem is resolved. Now it really is aggravating to have to
>> pay
>>>> 3 shops to troubleshoot a problem when the first shop should have
>>>> found the problem. United Engines in Oklahoma City told us that
> we
>>>> had about 50% left on our air filter. They were wrong and
>>>> consequently we had a transmission shop try to find the problem.
> I
>>>> guess it is a good thing to have all our ground connections made
>>>> secure but it was not the cause.
>>>>
>>>> So does Bluebird work on Friday. Does anyone know what air
> filter
>> the
>>>> 1992 WLWB 40' PT 8V92 uses?
>>>> If S & S can obtain a filter we could possibly be on our way to
> our
>>>> winter abode.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for all the advice and support. The camaraderie of
> these
>>>> lists is truly wonderful.
>>>>
>>>> Julie Bonser
>>>> 1992 WLWB PT 40'
>>>> El Paso, TX
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

[Gregory OConnor]

Air Filters like Fuel Filters are not a Time and Mileage maintained
item. Changing them on defined interval is good exersize but does
not guarantee they will not be capacitated one hour or 5 miles after
they are new. Kerry described a situation where the AF could be the
imediate cause of power loss but not the root cause. Changing the
filter in his situation woud be a temporaty fix.

The filter is large and will take quite a bit to make it blocked.
Electronics designed to keep engines from billowing black smoke, have
functions that shut down the R's to keep the smoke from the stack.
These devices use DC power. The common negivitive ground in autos
is not sealed up like the positive current. Part of the negitive loop
is the frame and body. the wire connection between the two is a
common problematic area and often the the least labourous fix (My
Kudos to the kind shops that ruled out this fix). Many of the sensor
are either on or off and some like the Mass Air Flow sensor(does a 8V
have one??) has values that the computer reads to keep things going.

I would ask the shop if the input is shutting down the r's? Is the
input isolated? and Can the sensor be by-passed and or can we run a
new independent ground and input wire to that appliance? . The
computers are not used on the 8V92 in construction equipment and
stationary generators.

The big problem with the fix is you will not know if you addressed
the problem untill it does not happen again.

GregoryO'Connor
94ptRomoland

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Julia Bonser
wrote:
>
> I would not expect or ask for 100% refund. I would ask for a
partial
> refund on the part of the bill that represent diagnostic time.
> Evaluating the air filter as still usable led to two more service
> calls on our part.
> I don't think the opinions of 3 different shops disagree as much
as
> the first two only addressed part of the problem. After the air
> filter is replace then other tests can be done to make sure the
issue
> is resolved. I can hope the air filter will address the problem
but
> won't know that until later.
>
> For those of us who are not mechanically inclined we really need
> reliable service. When we get settled I will go over the records
and
> figure out when the filters were last changed.
>
> Julie Bonser
> 1992 WLWB PT 40'

[Tom Warner]

Doug now we are getting someplace where we can form a concensus on
this issue. You have clarified the issue perfectly and I agree. In
my opinion you have hit one of the nails exactly on the head....
COMPUTERS! I have a friend that has a large diesel repair shop. He
has over 25 years experience most of it as the head mechanic in a
large and respectable repair shop that finally closed when the owner
retired. He has told me that his nightmares are caused by diesel
trucks coming in with computerized engines and transmissions many of
which are not maintained by fully trained mechanics. Partial fixes
just to get them down the road sometimes! While his mechanics are
experts in fixing almost anything....they tremble when the problems
are not caused by the obvious issues and the computers become suspect.

And we agree again about eating the parts etc when you cant fix the
problem. Several excellent shops in my area that do exactly that.
They dont want to word to ever get out that they charged the customer
for NOT fixing the problem. Sounds like you have a lot of pride in
your workmanship and shop Doug and I applaud you.

When I wrote down the requirements to be satisfied for my pusher
Bluebird at the top of the list was NO computers for either the
engine or transmission. I realize that there are forum members that
have different requirements but for me that was an absolute. Not
because I didnt understand or could work on them, but because I
wanted something simple to repair. I believe this exact problem that
Julie had and attempted to get repaired three times justifies my
decision for me.

Doug I dont know how large your shop is but I would almost bet you
are having some of the same problems friends of mine in your business
are having. The expense of buying, maintaining and calibrating the
test equipment necessary to troubleshoot and repair these
computerized cars. And then of course you have to teach the mechanics
that work for you how to successfully use it. And of course the
customer has no idea how much overhead you have before you earn one
single dime for yourself. Glad I am retired

Hope Julie finds the problem so it can be documented and hopefully
help the next person that has this problem.

tom warner
vernon center,ny
1985 PT 40

. At 09:39 AM 12/9/2006, you wrote:
>Tom,
> I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I agree that if
> someone presents themselves as an expert, then they should be able
> to fix a problem. If they can't then perhaps they should revise
> their description of the service they offer. However, repair these
> days (and possibly has been forever) is unfortunately often not an
> exact science, especially with computers. How can we not expect to
> pay a service facility for their time if a problem continues to be elusive?
> I struggle with these same issues at my shop. If a problem is
> puzzling, I tell the customer. If I only "think" I have the problem
> solved, I tell the customer to drive the car and get back to me, if
> it's fixed, we'll settle up, if not, I'll try some more or try to
> find someone who can fix it. I personally get very frustrated when
> I can't fix a problem, not only for myself, but more so for my
> customer. Beleive me, I eat my share of parts and labor because my
> conscience won't allow me to charge for a missed diagnosis.
> My statments are made with the assumption that the shops
> honestly "thought" they had fixed the peoblem...maybe if they had
> another chance to work on the rig they could have, but Julie had to
> be on her way, a difficult situation for both vehicle owner and
> repair facility.
> So enough of this for me, back to the real issue. I too am very
> skeptical about this whole thing being caused by a bad air filter.
> Maybe...but doubtful to me. I think when it gets fixed, we will
> find there were other players. Just this week I had an Audi with a
> engine cut out situation that seemed like a fuel pump issue, but it
> turned out to be a cracked vaccum line going to the turbo waste
> gate. This caused the turbo to go into overboost and the computer
> ws shutting off the fuel pump. No computer fault codes were
> present. It can be a real challenge...
>
>Tom Warner wrote:
> Doug sounds like we have a disagreement here and in my
> opinion one of
>the reasons we have a few bad service areas that can get away with
>poor service. And notice that I said a few. I dont understand your
>rationale Doug when you say "time was spent, labor was done, the
>problem was not fixed", then what are you paying them for? I am
>going to pay $90-$110 an hour for expert services to NOT fix a
>problem now? Dont think so.
>I stick by my previous statement, if you cant do the work get out of
>the business. If they advertise diesel and allison transmission
>service then they should have the equipment, skills and parts to fix them.
>
>tom warner
>vernon center,ny
>1985 PT 40
>
>At 10:09 PM 12/8/2006, you wrote:
> >FWIW, Speaking as a repair shop owner, time was spent, labor was
> >done, the problem was not fixed. I feel that the previous shops are
> >due something for their time. Maybe some refund is due, maybe not, I
> >don't know what they charged. It sounds like the problem is not a
> >simple one, so missed diagnosis is not hard to understand. I feel
> >for Julie, the frustration of being stuck, spending money and not
> >getting the results you expected and spending more money is no fun
> >to say the least, but we cannot expect these complicated machines to
> >always be easy to fix. More often than not, I find elusive problems
> >to be multi-faceted, and while the actual repair may be easy and
> >quick, finding the problem may be difficult and time consuming.
> >Certianly we can't expect service facilities to only get paid for
> >the problems they fix, and not for the time it takes to diagnose the
> >problem? At least the most recent shop knows what has been tried and
> >didn't work, that alone is worth something.
> > I've been to my doctor 3 times with an aching elbow and it
> > still aches, but I have to keep paying for him to look at it.
> > I just hope they get it figured out and Julie and crew can get
> > on with their travels.
> > Doug Engel, Gunnison, CO, 1981 FC35SB, "Pokey"
> >
> >ac7880 wrote:
> > Tom,
> >
> >Perhaps you are jumping the starter gun? How can they demand a 100%
> >refund from previous shops until the problem is actually proven to be
> >solved with a simple new air filter replacement?
> >
> >What if they demand refunds, and the last shop's fix is not the final
> >solution?
> >
> >Do they then refund the refund?
> >
> >Let them get a fix that proves out in the long haul before pointing
> >fingers at previous shops and demanding money back. Maybe the 3rd
> >shops diagnosis is correct--or maybe not. 3 opinions thus far -
> >which one is right? The one that solves the problem over the next
> >30 days and multiple miles is likely the right one.
> >
> >As for me, I would never "immediately contact both shops
> >for a 100% refund", until it was proven beyond a boubt they were both
> >wrong - and even then I would cut slack for the hours they expended
> >in good faith to help me solve the problem when I needed help.
> >
> >Dan
> >94 BMC 37'
> >
> >--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner
> >wrote:
> > >
> > > Julie if I were in your place I would immediately contact both
> >shops
> > > for a 100% refund once you get the bill. If you have the number off
> > > the old filter go to this site and plug it in with no
> > > dashes. http://www.wixfilters.com/filterlookup/index.asp then go
> > > to http://www.filter1.com and get the phone number and the chances are
> >they
> > > will have one in stock.
> > >
> > > tom warner
> > > vernon center,ny
> > > 1985 PT 40
> > >
> > >
> > > At 10:44 PM 12/7/2006, you wrote:
> > > >We arrived in front of Stewart and Stevenson at 10 p.m. last night.
> > > >They said they would take a preliminary look today. From our
> > > >description of the problem and what work had been done they thought
> > > >that the issue was on the engine side of the equation. What they
> > > >found was the air filter was full. Now they are trying to locate a
> > > >filter to fit. They have phoned Bluebird but did not get an answer
> > > >today. He hoped for a call back tomorrow.
> > > >
> > > >After they put in the air filter they will test the system to see
> >if
> > > >the problem is resolved. Now it really is aggravating to have to
> >pay
> > > >3 shops to troubleshoot a problem when the first shop should have
> > > >found the problem. United Engines in Oklahoma City told us that we
> > > >had about 50% left on our air filter. They were wrong and
> > > >consequently we had a transmission shop try to find the problem. I
> > > >guess it is a good thing to have all our ground connections made
> > > >secure but it was not the cause.
> > > >
> > > >So does Bluebird work on Friday. Does anyone know what air filter
> >the
> > > >1992 WLWB 40' PT 8V92 uses?
> > > >If S & S can obtain a filter we could possibly be on our way to our
> > > >winter abode.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for all the advice and support. The camaraderie of these
> > > >lists is truly wonderful.
> > > >
> > > >Julie Bonser
> > > >1992 WLWB PT 40'
> > > >El Paso, TX
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Doug Engel, Gunnison, CO. 1981 FC35SB "Pokey"
> >
> >---------------------------------
> >Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited.
> >
> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Doug Engel, Gunnison, CO. 1981 FC35SB "Pokey"
>
>---------------------------------
>Check out the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta - Fire up a more powerful
>email and get things done faster.
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

[ac7880]

Well Tom, If I demand 100 percent satisfaction for every dollar I
spend, then the IRS and US government owes me back every dollar I
ever paid in US taxes. I am not 100% satisifed with how my money was
spent.

I also have some investments on the stock market where I was not
satisfied - I want all my money back there.

Then there was one motorcycle and 2 new cars where I was not happy -
I'll settle for 50 percent back there as I had some use, though not
meeting my level of expectation.

I purchased some tough steaks over the years - I'll take back 25%
there. Some potatoes I purchased went bad - I want 20% back there.

I have had some problems on air line flights over the years - I'll
settle for 30% back there.

The medical system mis-diagnosed my wife 3 times before we fixed the
problem - I want 100 percent back there plus pain and suffering -
hell I'll just sue them for 3 million dollars like others have done,
and every other person in need of medical treatment can pay higher
medical fees to cover our gain on that one.

In your years in USAF Civil Engineering I am sure you made some
errors - please submit a check to the US treasory to cover your wages
you were paid while making those errors - plus interest of course.
You did make at least SOME errors - though you were working in good
faith?

People work in good faith - and get paid for good faith efforts.
Most of the time it works out. .

Dan
\

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner
wrote:
>
> Doug sounds like we have a disagreement here and in my opinion one
of
> the reasons we have a few bad service areas that can get away with
> poor service. And notice that I said a few. I dont understand your
> rationale Doug when you say "time was spent, labor was done, the
> problem was not fixed", then what are you paying them for? I am
> going to pay $90-$110 an hour for expert services to NOT fix a
> problem now? Dont think so.
> I stick by my previous statement, if you cant do the work get out
of
> the business. If they advertise diesel and allison transmission
> service then they should have the equipment, skills and parts to
fix them.
>
> tom warner
> vernon center,ny
> 1985 PT 40
>
>
>
> At 10:09 PM 12/8/2006, you wrote:
> >FWIW, Speaking as a repair shop owner, time was spent, labor was
> >done, the problem was not fixed. I feel that the previous shops
are
> >due something for their time. Maybe some refund is due, maybe not,
I
> >don't know what they charged. It sounds like the problem is not a
> >simple one, so missed diagnosis is not hard to understand. I feel
> >for Julie, the frustration of being stuck, spending money and not
> >getting the results you expected and spending more money is no fun
> >to say the least, but we cannot expect these complicated machines
to
> >always be easy to fix. More often than not, I find elusive
problems
> >to be multi-faceted, and while the actual repair may be easy and
> >quick, finding the problem may be difficult and time consuming.
> >Certianly we can't expect service facilities to only get paid for
> >the problems they fix, and not for the time it takes to diagnose
the
> >problem? At least the most recent shop knows what has been tried
and
> >didn't work, that alone is worth something.
> > I've been to my doctor 3 times with an aching elbow and it
> > still aches, but I have to keep paying for him to look at it.
> > I just hope they get it figured out and Julie and crew can
get
> > on with their travels.
> > Doug Engel, Gunnison, CO, 1981 FC35SB, "Pokey"
> >
> >ac7880 wrote:
> > Tom,
> >
> >Perhaps you are jumping the starter gun? How can they demand a 100%
> >refund from previous shops until the problem is actually proven to
be
> >solved with a simple new air filter replacement?
> >
> >What if they demand refunds, and the last shop's fix is not the
final
> >solution?
> >
> >Do they then refund the refund?
> >
> >Let them get a fix that proves out in the long haul before pointing
> >fingers at previous shops and demanding money back. Maybe the 3rd
> >shops diagnosis is correct--or maybe not. 3 opinions thus far -
> >which one is right? The one that solves the problem over the next
> >30 days and multiple miles is likely the right one.
> >
> >As for me, I would never "immediately contact both shops
> >for a 100% refund", until it was proven beyond a boubt they were
both
> >wrong - and even then I would cut slack for the hours they expended
> >in good faith to help me solve the problem when I needed help.
> >
> >Dan
> >94 BMC 37'
> >
> >--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner
> >wrote:
> > >
> > > Julie if I were in your place I would immediately contact both
> >shops
> > > for a 100% refund once you get the bill. If you have the number
off
> > > the old filter go to this site and plug it in with no
> > > dashes. http://www.wixfilters.com/filterlookup/index.asp then go
> > > to http://www.filter1.com and get the phone number and the chances are
> >they
> > > will have one in stock.
> > >
> > > tom warner
> > > vernon center,ny
> > > 1985 PT 40
> > >
> > >
> > > At 10:44 PM 12/7/2006, you wrote:
> > > >We arrived in front of Stewart and Stevenson at 10 p.m. last
night.
> > > >They said they would take a preliminary look today. From our
> > > >description of the problem and what work had been done they
thought
> > > >that the issue was on the engine side of the equation. What
they
> > > >found was the air filter was full. Now they are trying to
locate a
> > > >filter to fit. They have phoned Bluebird but did not get an
answer
> > > >today. He hoped for a call back tomorrow.
> > > >
> > > >After they put in the air filter they will test the system to
see
> >if
> > > >the problem is resolved. Now it really is aggravating to have
to
> >pay
> > > >3 shops to troubleshoot a problem when the first shop should
have
> > > >found the problem. United Engines in Oklahoma City told us
that we
> > > >had about 50% left on our air filter. They were wrong and
> > > >consequently we had a transmission shop try to find the
problem. I
> > > >guess it is a good thing to have all our ground connections
made
> > > >secure but it was not the cause.
> > > >
> > > >So does Bluebird work on Friday. Does anyone know what air
filter
> >the
> > > >1992 WLWB 40' PT 8V92 uses?
> > > >If S & S can obtain a filter we could possibly be on our way
to our
> > > >winter abode.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for all the advice and support. The camaraderie of
these
> > > >lists is truly wonderful.
> > > >
> > > >Julie Bonser
> > > >1992 WLWB PT 40'
> > > >El Paso, TX
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Doug Engel, Gunnison, CO. 1981 FC35SB "Pokey"
> >
> >---------------------------------
> >Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited.
> >
> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>

[Dan Darst]

Hey I'll take 50% back on my cell phone charges, what a scam.

dandarst86fc35rbhuntleyil.
how bout Arthur Anderson and Enron

>From: "ac7880"
>Reply-To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
>To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Update on loss of Turbo Boost and check
>Transmission light
>Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2006 02:07:55 -0000
>
>Well Tom, If I demand 100 percent satisfaction for every dollar I
>spend, then the IRS and US government owes me back every dollar I
>ever paid in US taxes. I am not 100% satisifed with how my money was
>spent.
>
>I also have some investments on the stock market where I was not
>satisfied - I want all my money back there.
>
>Then there was one motorcycle and 2 new cars where I was not happy -
>I'll settle for 50 percent back there as I had some use, though not
>meeting my level of expectation.
>
>I purchased some tough steaks over the years - I'll take back 25%
>there. Some potatoes I purchased went bad - I want 20% back there.
>
>I have had some problems on air line flights over the years - I'll
>settle for 30% back there.
>
>The medical system mis-diagnosed my wife 3 times before we fixed the
>problem - I want 100 percent back there plus pain and suffering -
>hell I'll just sue them for 3 million dollars like others have done,
>and every other person in need of medical treatment can pay higher
>medical fees to cover our gain on that one.
>
>In your years in USAF Civil Engineering I am sure you made some
>errors - please submit a check to the US treasory to cover your wages
>you were paid while making those errors - plus interest of course.
>You did make at least SOME errors - though you were working in good
>faith?
>
>People work in good faith - and get paid for good faith efforts.
>Most of the time it works out. .
>
>Dan
>\
>
>--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner
>wrote:
> >
> > Doug sounds like we have a disagreement here and in my opinion one
>of
> > the reasons we have a few bad service areas that can get away with
> > poor service. And notice that I said a few. I dont understand your
> > rationale Doug when you say "time was spent, labor was done, the
> > problem was not fixed", then what are you paying them for? I am
> > going to pay $90-$110 an hour for expert services to NOT fix a
> > problem now? Dont think so.
> > I stick by my previous statement, if you cant do the work get out
>of
> > the business. If they advertise diesel and allison transmission
> > service then they should have the equipment, skills and parts to
>fix them.
> >
> > tom warner
> > vernon center,ny
> > 1985 PT 40
> >
> >
> >
> > At 10:09 PM 12/8/2006, you wrote:
> > >FWIW, Speaking as a repair shop owner, time was spent, labor was
> > >done, the problem was not fixed. I feel that the previous shops
>are
> > >due something for their time. Maybe some refund is due, maybe not,
>I
> > >don't know what they charged. It sounds like the problem is not a
> > >simple one, so missed diagnosis is not hard to understand. I feel
> > >for Julie, the frustration of being stuck, spending money and not
> > >getting the results you expected and spending more money is no fun
> > >to say the least, but we cannot expect these complicated machines
>to
> > >always be easy to fix. More often than not, I find elusive
>problems
> > >to be multi-faceted, and while the actual repair may be easy and
> > >quick, finding the problem may be difficult and time consuming.
> > >Certianly we can't expect service facilities to only get paid for
> > >the problems they fix, and not for the time it takes to diagnose
>the
> > >problem? At least the most recent shop knows what has been tried
>and
> > >didn't work, that alone is worth something.
> > > I've been to my doctor 3 times with an aching elbow and it
> > > still aches, but I have to keep paying for him to look at it.
> > > I just hope they get it figured out and Julie and crew can
>get
> > > on with their travels.
> > > Doug Engel, Gunnison, CO, 1981 FC35SB, "Pokey"
> > >
> > >ac7880 wrote:
> > > Tom,
> > >
> > >Perhaps you are jumping the starter gun? How can they demand a 100%
> > >refund from previous shops until the problem is actually proven to
>be
> > >solved with a simple new air filter replacement?
> > >
> > >What if they demand refunds, and the last shop's fix is not the
>final
> > >solution?
> > >
> > >Do they then refund the refund?
> > >
> > >Let them get a fix that proves out in the long haul before pointing
> > >fingers at previous shops and demanding money back. Maybe the 3rd
> > >shops diagnosis is correct--or maybe not. 3 opinions thus far -
> > >which one is right? The one that solves the problem over the next
> > >30 days and multiple miles is likely the right one.
> > >
> > >As for me, I would never "immediately contact both shops
> > >for a 100% refund", until it was proven beyond a boubt they were
>both
> > >wrong - and even then I would cut slack for the hours they expended
> > >in good faith to help me solve the problem when I needed help.
> > >
> > >Dan
> > >94 BMC 37'
> > >
> > >--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner
> > >wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Julie if I were in your place I would immediately contact both
> > >shops
> > > > for a 100% refund once you get the bill. If you have the number
>off
> > > > the old filter go to this site and plug it in with no
> > > > dashes. http://www.wixfilters.com/filterlookup/index.asp then go
> > > > to http://www.filter1.com and get the phone number and the chances are
> > >they
> > > > will have one in stock.
> > > >
> > > > tom warner
> > > > vernon center,ny
> > > > 1985 PT 40
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > At 10:44 PM 12/7/2006, you wrote:
> > > > >We arrived in front of Stewart and Stevenson at 10 p.m. last
>night.
> > > > >They said they would take a preliminary look today. From our
> > > > >description of the problem and what work had been done they
>thought
> > > > >that the issue was on the engine side of the equation. What
>they
> > > > >found was the air filter was full. Now they are trying to
>locate a
> > > > >filter to fit. They have phoned Bluebird but did not get an
>answer
> > > > >today. He hoped for a call back tomorrow.
> > > > >
> > > > >After they put in the air filter they will test the system to
>see
> > >if
> > > > >the problem is resolved. Now it really is aggravating to have
>to
> > >pay
> > > > >3 shops to troubleshoot a problem when the first shop should
>have
> > > > >found the problem. United Engines in Oklahoma City told us
>that we
> > > > >had about 50% left on our air filter. They were wrong and
> > > > >consequently we had a transmission shop try to find the
>problem. I
> > > > >guess it is a good thing to have all our ground connections
>made
> > > > >secure but it was not the cause.
> > > > >
> > > > >So does Bluebird work on Friday. Does anyone know what air
>filter
> > >the
> > > > >1992 WLWB 40' PT 8V92 uses?
> > > > >If S & S can obtain a filter we could possibly be on our way
>to our
> > > > >winter abode.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks for all the advice and support. The camaraderie of
>these
> > > > >lists is truly wonderful.
> > > > >
> > > > >Julie Bonser
> > > > >1992 WLWB PT 40'
> > > > >El Paso, TX
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Doug Engel, Gunnison, CO. 1981 FC35SB "Pokey"
> > >
> > >---------------------------------
> > >Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited.
> > >
> > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
Talk now to your Hotmail contacts with Windows Live Messenger.
http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020...t.liv\
e.com/messenger/overview

[Bob & Carol Howald`]

Dan: Well said ! One of the best post I've read in a long
time.Bob 93pt-40



In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "ac7880" wrote:
>
> Well Tom, If I demand 100 percent satisfaction for every dollar I
> spend, then the IRS and US government owes me back every dollar I
> ever paid in US taxes. I am not 100% satisifed with how my money
was
> spent.
>
> I also have some investments on the stock market where I was not
> satisfied - I want all my money back there.
>
> Then there was one motorcycle and 2 new cars where I was not happy -

> I'll settle for 50 percent back there as I had some use, though not
> meeting my level of expectation.
>
> I purchased some tough steaks over the years - I'll take back 25%
> there. Some potatoes I purchased went bad - I want 20% back there.
>
> I have had some problems on air line flights over the years - I'll
> settle for 30% back there.
>
> The medical system mis-diagnosed my wife 3 times before we fixed
the
> problem - I want 100 percent back there plus pain and suffering -
> hell I'll just sue them for 3 million dollars like others have
done,
> and every other person in need of medical treatment can pay higher
> medical fees to cover our gain on that one.
>
> In your years in USAF Civil Engineering I am sure you made some
> errors - please submit a check to the US treasory to cover your
wages
> you were paid while making those errors - plus interest of course.
> You did make at least SOME errors - though you were working in good
> faith?
>
> People work in good faith - and get paid for good faith efforts.
> Most of the time it works out. .
>
> Dan
> \
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner
> wrote:
> >
> > Doug sounds like we have a disagreement here and in my opinion
one
> of
> > the reasons we have a few bad service areas that can get away
with
> > poor service. And notice that I said a few. I dont understand
your
> > rationale Doug when you say "time was spent, labor was done, the
> > problem was not fixed", then what are you paying them for? I am
> > going to pay $90-$110 an hour for expert services to NOT fix a
> > problem now? Dont think so.
> > I stick by my previous statement, if you cant do the work get out
> of
> > the business. If they advertise diesel and allison transmission
> > service then they should have the equipment, skills and parts to
> fix them.
> >
> > tom warner
> > vernon center,ny
> > 1985 PT 40
> >
> >
> >
> > At 10:09 PM 12/8/2006, you wrote:
> > >FWIW, Speaking as a repair shop owner, time was spent, labor was
> > >done, the problem was not fixed. I feel that the previous shops
> are
> > >due something for their time. Maybe some refund is due, maybe
not,
> I
> > >don't know what they charged. It sounds like the problem is not
a
> > >simple one, so missed diagnosis is not hard to understand. I
feel
> > >for Julie, the frustration of being stuck, spending money and
not
> > >getting the results you expected and spending more money is no
fun
> > >to say the least, but we cannot expect these complicated
machines
> to
> > >always be easy to fix. More often than not, I find elusive
> problems
> > >to be multi-faceted, and while the actual repair may be easy and
> > >quick, finding the problem may be difficult and time consuming.
> > >Certianly we can't expect service facilities to only get paid
for
> > >the problems they fix, and not for the time it takes to diagnose
> the
> > >problem? At least the most recent shop knows what has been tried
> and
> > >didn't work, that alone is worth something.
> > > I've been to my doctor 3 times with an aching elbow and it
> > > still aches, but I have to keep paying for him to look at it.
> > > I just hope they get it figured out and Julie and crew can
> get
> > > on with their travels.
> > > Doug Engel, Gunnison, CO, 1981 FC35SB, "Pokey"
> > >
> > >ac7880 wrote:
> > > Tom,
> > >
> > >Perhaps you are jumping the starter gun? How can they demand a
100%
> > >refund from previous shops until the problem is actually proven
to
> be
> > >solved with a simple new air filter replacement?
> > >
> > >What if they demand refunds, and the last shop's fix is not the
> final
> > >solution?
> > >
> > >Do they then refund the refund?
> > >
> > >Let them get a fix that proves out in the long haul before
pointing
> > >fingers at previous shops and demanding money back. Maybe the 3rd
> > >shops diagnosis is correct--or maybe not. 3 opinions thus far -
> > >which one is right? The one that solves the problem over the next
> > >30 days and multiple miles is likely the right one.
> > >
> > >As for me, I would never "immediately contact both shops
> > >for a 100% refund", until it was proven beyond a boubt they were
> both
> > >wrong - and even then I would cut slack for the hours they
expended
> > >in good faith to help me solve the problem when I needed help.
> > >
> > >Dan
> > >94 BMC 37'
> > >
> > >--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner
> > >wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Julie if I were in your place I would immediately contact both
> > >shops
> > > > for a 100% refund once you get the bill. If you have the
number
> off
> > > > the old filter go to this site and plug it in with no
> > > > dashes. http://www.wixfilters.com/filterlookup/index.asp then
go
> > > > to http://www.filter1.com and get the phone number and the chances
are
> > >they
> > > > will have one in stock.
> > > >
> > > > tom warner
> > > > vernon center,ny
> > > > 1985 PT 40
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > At 10:44 PM 12/7/2006, you wrote:
> > > > >We arrived in front of Stewart and Stevenson at 10 p.m. last
> night.
> > > > >They said they would take a preliminary look today. From our
> > > > >description of the problem and what work had been done they
> thought
> > > > >that the issue was on the engine side of the equation. What
> they
> > > > >found was the air filter was full. Now they are trying to
> locate a
> > > > >filter to fit. They have phoned Bluebird but did not get an
> answer
> > > > >today. He hoped for a call back tomorrow.
> > > > >
> > > > >After they put in the air filter they will test the system
to
> see
> > >if
> > > > >the problem is resolved. Now it really is aggravating to
have
> to
> > >pay
> > > > >3 shops to troubleshoot a problem when the first shop should
> have
> > > > >found the problem. United Engines in Oklahoma City told us
> that we
> > > > >had about 50% left on our air filter. They were wrong and
> > > > >consequently we had a transmission shop try to find the
> problem. I
> > > > >guess it is a good thing to have all our ground connections
> made
> > > > >secure but it was not the cause.
> > > > >
> > > > >So does Bluebird work on Friday. Does anyone know what air
> filter
> > >the
> > > > >1992 WLWB 40' PT 8V92 uses?
> > > > >If S & S can obtain a filter we could possibly be on our way
> to our
> > > > >winter abode.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks for all the advice and support. The camaraderie of
> these
> > > > >lists is truly wonderful.
> > > > >
> > > > >Julie Bonser
> > > > >1992 WLWB PT 40'
> > > > >El Paso, TX
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Doug Engel, Gunnison, CO. 1981 FC35SB "Pokey"
> > >
> > >---------------------------------
> > >Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited.
> > >
> > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>

[Jay Darst]

DanD,

this has turned into a spittin match, I'd leave it alone.

you boys need to take this crap somewhere else, this forum is not
about this

Later
JDarst



--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Dan Darst"
wrote:
>
> Hey I'll take 50% back on my cell phone charges, what a scam.
>
> dandarst86fc35rbhuntleyil.
> how bout Arthur Anderson and Enron
>
> >From: "ac7880"
> >Reply-To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> >To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Update on loss of Turbo Boost and
check
> >Transmission light
> >Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2006 02:07:55 -0000
> >
> >Well Tom, If I demand 100 percent satisfaction for every dollar I
> >spend, then the IRS and US government owes me back every dollar I
> >ever paid in US taxes. I am not 100% satisifed with how my money
was
> >spent.
> >
> >I also have some investments on the stock market where I was not
> >satisfied - I want all my money back there.
> >
> >Then there was one motorcycle and 2 new cars where I was not
happy -
> >I'll settle for 50 percent back there as I had some use, though
not
> >meeting my level of expectation.
> >
> >I purchased some tough steaks over the years - I'll take back 25%
> >there. Some potatoes I purchased went bad - I want 20% back
there.
> >
> >I have had some problems on air line flights over the years - I'll
> >settle for 30% back there.
> >
> >The medical system mis-diagnosed my wife 3 times before we fixed
the
> >problem - I want 100 percent back there plus pain and suffering -
> >hell I'll just sue them for 3 million dollars like others have
done,
> >and every other person in need of medical treatment can pay higher
> >medical fees to cover our gain on that one.
> >
> >In your years in USAF Civil Engineering I am sure you made some
> >errors - please submit a check to the US treasory to cover your
wages
> >you were paid while making those errors - plus interest of course.
> >You did make at least SOME errors - though you were working in
good
> >faith?
> >
> >People work in good faith - and get paid for good faith efforts.
> >Most of the time it works out. .
> >
> >Dan
> >\
> >
> >--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner
> >wrote:
> > >
> > > Doug sounds like we have a disagreement here and in my opinion
one
> >of
> > > the reasons we have a few bad service areas that can get away
with
> > > poor service. And notice that I said a few. I dont understand
your
> > > rationale Doug when you say "time was spent, labor was done,
the
> > > problem was not fixed", then what are you paying them for? I
am
> > > going to pay $90-$110 an hour for expert services to NOT fix a
> > > problem now? Dont think so.
> > > I stick by my previous statement, if you cant do the work get
out
> >of
> > > the business. If they advertise diesel and allison transmission
> > > service then they should have the equipment, skills and parts
to
> >fix them.
> > >
> > > tom warner
> > > vernon center,ny
> > > 1985 PT 40
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > At 10:09 PM 12/8/2006, you wrote:
> > > >FWIW, Speaking as a repair shop owner, time was spent, labor
was
> > > >done, the problem was not fixed. I feel that the previous
shops
> >are
> > > >due something for their time. Maybe some refund is due, maybe
not,
> >I
> > > >don't know what they charged. It sounds like the problem is
not a
> > > >simple one, so missed diagnosis is not hard to understand. I
feel
> > > >for Julie, the frustration of being stuck, spending money and
not
> > > >getting the results you expected and spending more money is
no fun
> > > >to say the least, but we cannot expect these complicated
machines
> >to
> > > >always be easy to fix. More often than not, I find elusive
> >problems
> > > >to be multi-faceted, and while the actual repair may be easy
and
> > > >quick, finding the problem may be difficult and time
consuming.
> > > >Certianly we can't expect service facilities to only get paid
for
> > > >the problems they fix, and not for the time it takes to
diagnose
> >the
> > > >problem? At least the most recent shop knows what has been
tried
> >and
> > > >didn't work, that alone is worth something.
> > > > I've been to my doctor 3 times with an aching elbow and
it
> > > > still aches, but I have to keep paying for him to look at it.
> > > > I just hope they get it figured out and Julie and crew
can
> >get
> > > > on with their travels.
> > > > Doug Engel, Gunnison, CO, 1981 FC35SB, "Pokey"
> > > >
> > > >ac7880 wrote:
> > > > Tom,
> > > >
> > > >Perhaps you are jumping the starter gun? How can they demand
a 100%
> > > >refund from previous shops until the problem is actually
proven to
> >be
> > > >solved with a simple new air filter replacement?
> > > >
> > > >What if they demand refunds, and the last shop's fix is not
the
> >final
> > > >solution?
> > > >
> > > >Do they then refund the refund?
> > > >
> > > >Let them get a fix that proves out in the long haul before
pointing
> > > >fingers at previous shops and demanding money back. Maybe the
3rd
> > > >shops diagnosis is correct--or maybe not. 3 opinions thus
far -
> > > >which one is right? The one that solves the problem over the
next
> > > >30 days and multiple miles is likely the right one.
> > > >
> > > >As for me, I would never "immediately contact both shops
> > > >for a 100% refund", until it was proven beyond a boubt they
were
> >both
> > > >wrong - and even then I would cut slack for the hours they
expended
> > > >in good faith to help me solve the problem when I needed help.
> > > >
> > > >Dan
> > > >94 BMC 37'
> > > >
> > > >--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner

> > > >wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Julie if I were in your place I would immediately contact
both
> > > >shops
> > > > > for a 100% refund once you get the bill. If you have the
number
> >off
> > > > > the old filter go to this site and plug it in with no
> > > > > dashes. http://www.wixfilters.com/filterlookup/index.asp
then go
> > > > > to http://www.filter1.com and get the phone number and the
chances are
> > > >they
> > > > > will have one in stock.
> > > > >
> > > > > tom warner
> > > > > vernon center,ny
> > > > > 1985 PT 40
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > At 10:44 PM 12/7/2006, you wrote:
> > > > > >We arrived in front of Stewart and Stevenson at 10 p.m.
last
> >night.
> > > > > >They said they would take a preliminary look today. From
our
> > > > > >description of the problem and what work had been done
they
> >thought
> > > > > >that the issue was on the engine side of the equation.
What
> >they
> > > > > >found was the air filter was full. Now they are trying to
> >locate a
> > > > > >filter to fit. They have phoned Bluebird but did not get
an
> >answer
> > > > > >today. He hoped for a call back tomorrow.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >After they put in the air filter they will test the
system to
> >see
> > > >if
> > > > > >the problem is resolved. Now it really is aggravating to
have
> >to
> > > >pay
> > > > > >3 shops to troubleshoot a problem when the first shop
should
> >have
> > > > > >found the problem. United Engines in Oklahoma City told us
> >that we
> > > > > >had about 50% left on our air filter. They were wrong and
> > > > > >consequently we had a transmission shop try to find the
> >problem. I
> > > > > >guess it is a good thing to have all our ground
connections
> >made
> > > > > >secure but it was not the cause.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >So does Bluebird work on Friday. Does anyone know what air
> >filter
> > > >the
> > > > > >1992 WLWB 40' PT 8V92 uses?
> > > > > >If S & S can obtain a filter we could possibly be on our
way
> >to our
> > > > > >winter abode.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks for all the advice and support. The camaraderie of
> >these
> > > > > >lists is truly wonderful.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Julie Bonser
> > > > > >1992 WLWB PT 40'
> > > > > >El Paso, TX
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Doug Engel, Gunnison, CO. 1981 FC35SB "Pokey"
> > > >
> > > >---------------------------------
> > > >Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited.
> > > >
> > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Talk now to your Hotmail contacts with Windows Live Messenger.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020...irect/01/?
href=http://get.live.com/messenger/overview
>

[Bob & Carol Howald`]

I disagree, I think this topic is very suitable for the forum. If
we get repairs on the road, how do we react to various senario's that
come up with regards to quality of work provided. It provide's a
couple different points of view that need to be incorperated in one's
decision on weather to pay protest or simply remain silent and accept
what happens.
As long as there is no name calling and civility prevail's with
no obvious attempts to intimidate anyone I think it's appropriate.
It's obvious that it has member's thinking about this problem which
we'll all face at one time or another with our bird's.

Bob 93pt40 Illinois (warming up)
anderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Jay Darst" wrote:
>
> DanD,
>
> this has turned into a spittin match, I'd leave it alone.
>
> you boys need to take this crap somewhere else, this forum is not
> about this
>
> Later
> JDarst
>
>
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Dan Darst"
> wrote:
> >
> > Hey I'll take 50% back on my cell phone charges, what a scam.
> >
> > dandarst86fc35rbhuntleyil.
> > how bout Arthur Anderson and Enron
> >
> > >From: "ac7880"
> > >Reply-To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > >To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > >Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Update on loss of Turbo Boost
and
> check
> > >Transmission light
> > >Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2006 02:07:55 -0000
> > >
> > >Well Tom, If I demand 100 percent satisfaction for every dollar
I
> > >spend, then the IRS and US government owes me back every dollar I
> > >ever paid in US taxes. I am not 100% satisifed with how my
money
> was
> > >spent.
> > >
> > >I also have some investments on the stock market where I was not
> > >satisfied - I want all my money back there.
> > >
> > >Then there was one motorcycle and 2 new cars where I was not
> happy -
> > >I'll settle for 50 percent back there as I had some use, though
> not
> > >meeting my level of expectation.
> > >
> > >I purchased some tough steaks over the years - I'll take back 25%
> > >there. Some potatoes I purchased went bad - I want 20% back
> there.
> > >
> > >I have had some problems on air line flights over the years -
I'll
> > >settle for 30% back there.
> > >
> > >The medical system mis-diagnosed my wife 3 times before we fixed
> the
> > >problem - I want 100 percent back there plus pain and suffering -
> > >hell I'll just sue them for 3 million dollars like others have
> done,
> > >and every other person in need of medical treatment can pay
higher
> > >medical fees to cover our gain on that one.
> > >
> > >In your years in USAF Civil Engineering I am sure you made some
> > >errors - please submit a check to the US treasory to cover your
> wages
> > >you were paid while making those errors - plus interest of
course.
> > >You did make at least SOME errors - though you were working in
> good
> > >faith?
> > >
> > >People work in good faith - and get paid for good faith efforts.
> > >Most of the time it works out. .
> > >
> > >Dan
> > >\
> > >
> > >--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner
> > >wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Doug sounds like we have a disagreement here and in my
opinion
> one
> > >of
> > > > the reasons we have a few bad service areas that can get away
> with
> > > > poor service. And notice that I said a few. I dont
understand
> your
> > > > rationale Doug when you say "time was spent, labor was done,
> the
> > > > problem was not fixed", then what are you paying them for? I
> am
> > > > going to pay $90-$110 an hour for expert services to NOT fix a
> > > > problem now? Dont think so.
> > > > I stick by my previous statement, if you cant do the work get
> out
> > >of
> > > > the business. If they advertise diesel and allison
transmission
> > > > service then they should have the equipment, skills and parts
> to
> > >fix them.
> > > >
> > > > tom warner
> > > > vernon center,ny
> > > > 1985 PT 40
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > At 10:09 PM 12/8/2006, you wrote:
> > > > >FWIW, Speaking as a repair shop owner, time was spent, labor
> was
> > > > >done, the problem was not fixed. I feel that the previous
> shops
> > >are
> > > > >due something for their time. Maybe some refund is due,
maybe
> not,
> > >I
> > > > >don't know what they charged. It sounds like the problem is
> not a
> > > > >simple one, so missed diagnosis is not hard to understand. I
> feel
> > > > >for Julie, the frustration of being stuck, spending money
and
> not
> > > > >getting the results you expected and spending more money is
> no fun
> > > > >to say the least, but we cannot expect these complicated
> machines
> > >to
> > > > >always be easy to fix. More often than not, I find elusive
> > >problems
> > > > >to be multi-faceted, and while the actual repair may be easy
> and
> > > > >quick, finding the problem may be difficult and time
> consuming.
> > > > >Certianly we can't expect service facilities to only get
paid
> for
> > > > >the problems they fix, and not for the time it takes to
> diagnose
> > >the
> > > > >problem? At least the most recent shop knows what has been
> tried
> > >and
> > > > >didn't work, that alone is worth something.
> > > > > I've been to my doctor 3 times with an aching elbow
and
> it
> > > > > still aches, but I have to keep paying for him to look at
it.
> > > > > I just hope they get it figured out and Julie and crew
> can
> > >get
> > > > > on with their travels.
> > > > > Doug Engel, Gunnison, CO, 1981 FC35SB, "Pokey"
> > > > >
> > > > >ac7880 wrote:
> > > > > Tom,
> > > > >
> > > > >Perhaps you are jumping the starter gun? How can they demand
> a 100%
> > > > >refund from previous shops until the problem is actually
> proven to
> > >be
> > > > >solved with a simple new air filter replacement?
> > > > >
> > > > >What if they demand refunds, and the last shop's fix is not
> the
> > >final
> > > > >solution?
> > > > >
> > > > >Do they then refund the refund?
> > > > >
> > > > >Let them get a fix that proves out in the long haul before
> pointing
> > > > >fingers at previous shops and demanding money back. Maybe
the
> 3rd
> > > > >shops diagnosis is correct--or maybe not. 3 opinions thus
> far -
> > > > >which one is right? The one that solves the problem over the
> next
> > > > >30 days and multiple miles is likely the right one.
> > > > >
> > > > >As for me, I would never "immediately contact both shops
> > > > >for a 100% refund", until it was proven beyond a boubt they
> were
> > >both
> > > > >wrong - and even then I would cut slack for the hours they
> expended
> > > > >in good faith to help me solve the problem when I needed
help.
> > > > >
> > > > >Dan
> > > > >94 BMC 37'
> > > > >
> > > > >--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner
>
> > > > >wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Julie if I were in your place I would immediately contact
> both
> > > > >shops
> > > > > > for a 100% refund once you get the bill. If you have the
> number
> > >off
> > > > > > the old filter go to this site and plug it in with no
> > > > > > dashes. http://www.wixfilters.com/filterlookup/index.asp
> then go
> > > > > > to http://www.filter1.com and get the phone number and the
> chances are
> > > > >they
> > > > > > will have one in stock.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > tom warner
> > > > > > vernon center,ny
> > > > > > 1985 PT 40
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > At 10:44 PM 12/7/2006, you wrote:
> > > > > > >We arrived in front of Stewart and Stevenson at 10 p.m.
> last
> > >night.
> > > > > > >They said they would take a preliminary look today. From
> our
> > > > > > >description of the problem and what work had been done
> they
> > >thought
> > > > > > >that the issue was on the engine side of the equation.
> What
> > >they
> > > > > > >found was the air filter was full. Now they are trying to
> > >locate a
> > > > > > >filter to fit. They have phoned Bluebird but did not get
> an
> > >answer
> > > > > > >today. He hoped for a call back tomorrow.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >After they put in the air filter they will test the
> system to
> > >see
> > > > >if
> > > > > > >the problem is resolved. Now it really is aggravating to
> have
> > >to
> > > > >pay
> > > > > > >3 shops to troubleshoot a problem when the first shop
> should
> > >have
> > > > > > >found the problem. United Engines in Oklahoma City told
us
> > >that we
> > > > > > >had about 50% left on our air filter. They were wrong and
> > > > > > >consequently we had a transmission shop try to find the
> > >problem. I
> > > > > > >guess it is a good thing to have all our ground
> connections
> > >made
> > > > > > >secure but it was not the cause.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >So does Bluebird work on Friday. Does anyone know what
air
> > >filter
> > > > >the
> > > > > > >1992 WLWB 40' PT 8V92 uses?
> > > > > > >If S & S can obtain a filter we could possibly be on our
> way
> > >to our
> > > > > > >winter abode.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks for all the advice and support. The camaraderie
of
> > >these
> > > > > > >lists is truly wonderful.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Julie Bonser
> > > > > > >1992 WLWB PT 40'
> > > > > > >El Paso, TX
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >Doug Engel, Gunnison, CO. 1981 FC35SB "Pokey"
> > > > >
> > > > >---------------------------------
> > > > >Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited.
> > > > >
> > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Talk now to your Hotmail contacts with Windows Live Messenger.
> > http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020...irect/01/?
> href=http://get.live.com/messenger/overview
> >
>

[David Heibult]

Julie; one my 91 PT I went to NAPA and they had the filter.Dave91WBWL40


>From: Julia Bonser
>Reply-To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
>To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Update on loss of Turbo Boost and check
>Transmission light
>Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 16:01:56 -0700
>
>I think you are partially right Ron however we have had this bird
>serviced every year or 10,000 miles whichever came first. We rely on
>the mechanics and technicians to inform us when there check of
>systems indicate a change of filters. I think another part of the
>problem is Bluebirds use of non standard parts. It is proving
>difficult to find the correct filter.
>
>Dick has been on the phone to United Engines to let them know that
>they let us down. Their service manager has talked to the service
>manager at S & S and we will now need to wait until after the new
>filter arrives and is installed to find out if they will do anything
>for us. We paid extra for them to diagnose the problem of loss of
>turbo boost and they only found part of the issue.
>
>It was implied by the service manager here that just being in a dusty
>environment can be a problem. Now most campgrounds we have stayed in
>have dirt/gravel roads and every passing vehicle stirs up a lot of
>dust. Then there is all the dust in the desert southwest.
>
>I feel we have put in our best effort at maintaining our Bluebird and
>I'm not sure if there was more that we could have done. I have asked
>the service manager if there is a maintenance schedule sheet for the
>Detroit Diesel and he said he would locate one for me. Then I can be
>sure to ask for the specific service such as check all the filters
>and fluids when it is appropriate.
>
>Julie Bonser
>1992 WLWB PT 40'
>
>
>
>On Dec 8, 2006, at 8:48 AM, ronmarabito2002 wrote:
>
> > Tom:
> >
> > You are jumping the gun here with a call for 100% refund from
> > shops. Perhaps the first one, which falsely gave the Bonsers a clear
> > slate on the filter. Industrial Automatic was diagnosing a
> > transmission code showing low voltage to a throttle sensor. There was
> > no engine fault code. They did recommend taking it to an engine outfit
> > and that ended up being Stewart & Stevenson who diagnosed the problem.
> >
> > It is unfortunate that all shops are not capable in dealing with
> > all the problems encountered with these rigs. Most of these problems
> > end up being a result of poor preventative maintenance, which is often
> > caused by poor record keeping and things are left undone until they
> > fail.
> >
> > R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, tX 92WB40
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> Julie if I were in your place I would immediately contact both shops
> >> for a 100% refund once you get the bill. If you have the number off
> >> the old filter go to this site and plug it in with no
> >> dashes. http://www.wixfilters.com/filterlookup/index.asp then go
> >> to http://www.filter1.com and get the phone number and the chances are they
> >> will have one in stock.
> >>
> >> tom warner
> >> vernon center,ny
> >> 1985 PT 40
> >>
> >>
> >> At 10:44 PM 12/7/2006, you wrote:
> >>> We arrived in front of Stewart and Stevenson at 10 p.m. last night.
> >>> They said they would take a preliminary look today. From our
> >>> description of the problem and what work had been done they thought
> >>> that the issue was on the engine side of the equation. What they
> >>> found was the air filter was full. Now they are trying to locate a
> >>> filter to fit. They have phoned Bluebird but did not get an answer
> >>> today. He hoped for a call back tomorrow.
> >>>
> >>> After they put in the air filter they will test the system to see if
> >>> the problem is resolved. Now it really is aggravating to have to pay
> >>> 3 shops to troubleshoot a problem when the first shop should have
> >>> found the problem. United Engines in Oklahoma City told us that we
> >>> had about 50% left on our air filter. They were wrong and
> >>> consequently we had a transmission shop try to find the problem. I
> >>> guess it is a good thing to have all our ground connections made
> >>> secure but it was not the cause.
> >>>
> >>> So does Bluebird work on Friday. Does anyone know what air filter
> >>> the
> >>> 1992 WLWB 40' PT 8V92 uses?
> >>> If S & S can obtain a filter we could possibly be on our way to our
> >>> winter abode.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks for all the advice and support. The camaraderie of these
> >>> lists is truly wonderful.
> >>>
> >>> Julie Bonser
> >>> 1992 WLWB PT 40'
> >>> El Paso, TX
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>