5spd surprise

[davidkerryedwards]

I'm more confused than ever. There is no doubt I'm feeling 5
engine/tranmission speed transitions. It's possible I'm confusing the
lock-up for a shift. There is information in the owners manual on two
allison transmissions, a 644 and a 654CR. The 654CR does not have a
creeper 1st gear although reverse is way lower on the 54 than the 44.
The information shows the 644 locking up at the top of first gear. If
I were to make a guess as to which transition was a lock-up, I'd be
inclined to think it was the transition at the top of first gear.
However, when climbing the 10% grade out of Palo Duro canyon, I kept
the shift lever in 1 and I never felt a lock up or shift. Perhaps it
does not lock up at the top of first gear if the shift lever is on '1'.
I crawled under today to see if I could tell if it was a 644 or 654
since I have pictures of both, but couldn't get a clear enough view to
tell.
One thing that made me start analyzing what was happening was that
when climbing, it would drop from top gear into the next lower gear, I
could then move the shifter into 3 and it would hold that gear.
However if it shifted down twice from top gear, and then I moved the
shifter into '2' it would downshift again into a lower gear. I
thought two gears down would be '2' and putting the shifter in '2'
would simply hold that gear and stop it from shifting up.
Does anyone know the difference between a 643 and a 644., if that is
what I have? Top shift at full throttle is around 43 or 44mph.

Kerry
82 FC 35
Denver

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Hohnstein"
<MHOHNSTEIN@...> wrote:
>
> You talkin' 653 or 654cr for close ratio? CR takes off in 1st and
is a 5 speed. 653 is a 640 with a creeper 1st. 653 takes off in 2nd.
Not supposed to upshift a 653 under power from 1st to 2nd.
> MH
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: rwoodysurplus
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 10:25 AM
> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: 5spd surprise
>
>
> i have the 5 spd model in my f-800 with 8.3 c cummins and i have yet
> to use the low gear. Its a tractor with a 38' trailer to haul heavy
> stuff up to 58,000 but have yet to need the low gear and it has to
> be selected to use low..Its not used in the d postion.
>
>
> woody 81 fc looking for 8.3/world series 4000 for my bus~
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Hohnstein"
> <MHOHNSTEIN@> wrote:
> >
> > Jeff, I talked to Lennie my Allison guy and he said the 654CR was
> used in concrete trucks, had larger diameter converter 3" longer
> input shaft and larger diameter stator support spline. He scratched
> his head a little and allowed it might be possible to retro the 643
> input, stator support and converter to use the 5sp. planetary. I
> can believe it was done as the engine has been turbo charged,
> previous owner living in the mountains might have gotten weary
> talking to the joggers on the grades.
> > MH
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Jeff Miller
> > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 10:02 AM
> > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: 5spd surprise
> >
> >
> > Trust Mike on this one. The MT-643 is the FC transmission
> until '87,
> > the torque-converter does indeed feel like a shift, should be
> around
> > 40mph at full throttle. The 654 was used, on the 6V2TA Detroit
> in the
> > PT, not on the FC. The transmission that would fit your coach in
> a 5-
> > speed would be the MT-653, which is the MT-643 with a creeper
> first
> > added, dump-truck tranny. I'm not aware of that transmission
> ever
> > being installed in an FC nor do I know why you'd need a creeper
> gear.
> >
> > 10mpg is seller's math. You should get around 8, less if you
> push it
> > hard. I've owned all configurations of diesel FC, never had one
> that
> > averaged better than 8.5 nor worse than 7.5mpg. If you have the
> > original 5.29:1 gearing you're pretty far out of the BSFE curve
> > already at 60, running 50-55 gently might give you 9mpg. The NA
> has
> > to work pretty hard to push an '82 FC35 down the highway, worst
> > power/weight ratio FC made and geared for 55mph. On the other
> hand,
> > 8mpg isn't bad compared to the earlier gas models that weighed
> > 10,000lbs less.
> >
> > Pull the sending unit for the fuel tank, replace it while you're
> at
> > it, they go bad, then calibrate it for the tank. Sounds like
> yours
> > was replaced without calibration. The '82 FC35 side-bath should
> hold
> > 265gallons.
> >
> > - Jeff Miller
> > in Holland, MI
> >
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "davidkerryedwards"
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > It's possible I'm feeling convertor lock up, but I doubt it.
> There
> > > are 4 clear upshifts after 1st and 4 clear downshifts from top
> gear.
> > > Does a lock up convertor unlock under load on a hill, giving
> the
> > > appearance of a downshift? The amount of rpm difference is
> more
> > than
> > > I would associate with a lock up. There is paperwork in the
> owner's
> > > manual indicating it it an MT 654CR transmission, which is a 5
> > spd. I
> > > haven't crawled underneath to confirm yet. Where is the model
> > number
> > > on the transmission?
> > >
> > > Kerry
> > > 82 FC 35
> > > Denver
> > >
> > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Hohnstein"
> > > <MHOHNSTEIN@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > You are feeling the converter lock, it's not a gear change.
> You
> > > have a 643, 4 speed with lock up, you will get about 7/8 mpg
> and
> > > that's the way it is. Don't believe the gages, they are
> indicators
> > > and not to be taken literally.
> > > > Let mine get down to indicated quarter tank once and it took
> 145
> > > gallons, 150 tank, rear bath floor plan.
> > > > MH
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: davidkerryedwards
> > > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 11:21 PM
> > > > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] 5spd surprise
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Took my Bird for it's first cruise from Denver to Amarillo
> to
> > visit
> > > > Palo Duro Canyon and Alibates Flint Quarries. After first
> > thinking I
> > > > was just losing my mind and not paying close enough
> attention to
> > > > shifting patterns as we climbed hills, I carefully counted
> the
> > shifts.
> > > > It has a 5 spd transmission and not a 4 spd. What a
> pleaant
> > > > surprise. The Allison 5 spd has a lockup torque convertor
> > which means
> > > > the previous owners insistence that it got a steady 10mpg
> is
> > > > believable. This means that not only does it have a new
> motor,
> > it has
> > > > a new transmission. Discovering this made up for the fact
> that
> > > > Amarillo had record low temperatures and snow during our
> visit.
> > > > Fuel gauge is reading way past full. Is this typical? It
> > seems to be
> > > > working, just that full is past full, and even past the
> little
> > button
> > > > below the 'F'. If it does this, does 'E' still mean empty
> or
> > is empty
> > > > now 1/2?
> > > >
> > > > Kerry
> > > > 82 FC 35
> > > > Denver
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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