Low volts and amps; was alternator - Printable Version +- Wanderlodge Gurus - The Member Funded Wanderlodge Forum (http://www.wanderlodgegurus.com) +-- Forum: Yahoo Groups Archive (/forumdisplay.php?fid=61) +--- Forum: WanderlodgeForum (/forumdisplay.php?fid=63) +--- Thread: Low volts and amps; was alternator (/showthread.php?tid=677) Pages: 1 2 |
Low volts and amps; was alternator - Sidney Breese - 05-23-2005 10:06 Some of you may remember my alternator belts broke. I just put the belts on my alternator and took Max for a spin. It registered about 100 amps and 11.5 volts. The amp meter went to 0 and the voltage 10. I turned on the generator and got close to normal for a couple of miles and then it did the same thing. I checked the alternator and it showed 11.5 volts. That may have been feedback from the batteries. I'm ready to buy a new alternator, but with the generator not supplying power to the chargers, think it might be something else. When I hooked up to shore power I got over 110 amps and 12.5 volts at the dash. Any suggestions? I need to get this solved as we are heading the California in a week! Sid Breese 85PT40 St. Joseph, MO Low volts and amps; was alternator - mrdonut12 - 05-23-2005 11:18 Sid, I've been having a similar problem with low charge rate. This weekend I took the ground connections loose from alternator and cleaned them. I cleaned the ground connections from the batteries to the frame and installed a new bolt. Clean every ground you can find. When I say clean them, use sandpaper to get the metal shiny around the connection to the chassis. Remove all rust and paint. Use a wire brush on the electrical connectors themselves. Being copper, they'll clean up easier. After I did that, it signicantly increased my rate and voltage. Bad grounds are the cause of more electrical problems on vehicles than anything else. I hope this helps. George Witt 81 FC 35 Lincoln, Nebraska--Huskers --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Sidney Breese" <ssbreese@a...> wrote: > Some of you may remember my alternator belts broke. I just put the > belts on my alternator and took Max for a spin. It registered about > 100 amps and 11.5 volts. The amp meter went to 0 and the voltage 10. > I turned on the generator and got close to normal for a couple of > miles and then it did the same thing. I checked the alternator and it > showed 11.5 volts. That may have been feedback from the batteries. > I'm ready to buy a new alternator, but with the generator not > supplying power to the chargers, think it might be something else. > When I hooked up to shore power I got over 110 amps and 12.5 volts at > the dash. Any suggestions? I need to get this solved as we are > heading the California in a week! > > Sid Breese > 85PT40 > St. Joseph, MO Low volts and amps; was alternator - Jeff Miller - 05-23-2005 12:17 Not a lot of information to go on, could take some testing to find if the gauges are correct, if there is a short, etc. If it is charging when plugged into shore power, it should charge the same when on generator power (same chargers are used). It should settle down after a while to a low charge rate (current), and around 13v. If the current and voltage stay 110a/11.5v for an extended period, it sounds like you have a substantial short somewhere, there should be smoke. Once the current/voltage settle down on shore power, try starting the engine and run up to ~1200rpm, check the gauges again. turn off shore power and see if the voltage/current stays as it should. I don't have an '84-1/2 up PT chassis wiring diagram with me, but if it is the same as the '84-'86 FC then don't expect the dash voltmeter to be even close with the key on. Check voltages at the batteries with a voltmeter. - Jeff Miller http://www.wanderlodge.net http://www.millercoachworks.com --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Sidney Breese" <ssbreese@a...> wrote: > Some of you may remember my alternator belts broke. I just put the > belts on my alternator and took Max for a spin. It registered about > 100 amps and 11.5 volts. The amp meter went to 0 and the voltage 10. > I turned on the generator and got close to normal for a couple of > miles and then it did the same thing. I checked the alternator and it > showed 11.5 volts. That may have been feedback from the batteries. > I'm ready to buy a new alternator, but with the generator not > supplying power to the chargers, think it might be something else. > When I hooked up to shore power I got over 110 amps and 12.5 volts at > the dash. Any suggestions? I need to get this solved as we are > heading the California in a week! > > Sid Breese > 85PT40 > St. Joseph, MO Low volts and amps; was alternator - Scott - 05-23-2005 12:52 Hey Sid, I just went through the alternator thing last week on our 86FC and all I can say is WOW... It turns out that my dash guages were off by 1 volt and we checked everything at the batteries..and the back of the alternator..and still had a substantial amperage draw..FINALLY figured out that the REDILINE WAS DRAWING APPX 90 AMPS when running..also make sure to check when batteries are charged otherwise the alternator is trying to charge back the batteries pushing alot of amperage. I replaced the alternator with a BOSCH unit 160amp special purpose designed to charge at lower rpms (new design used on tranist buses) I guess we will see..got a 1 yr warranty.. Scott 86FC35 Murrells Inlet Sc --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Sidney Breese" <ssbreese@a...> wrote: > Some of you may remember my alternator belts broke. I just put the > belts on my alternator and took Max for a spin. It registered about > 100 amps and 11.5 volts. The amp meter went to 0 and the voltage 10. > I turned on the generator and got close to normal for a couple of > miles and then it did the same thing. I checked the alternator and it > showed 11.5 volts. That may have been feedback from the batteries. > I'm ready to buy a new alternator, but with the generator not > supplying power to the chargers, think it might be something else. > When I hooked up to shore power I got over 110 amps and 12.5 volts at > the dash. Any suggestions? I need to get this solved as we are > heading the California in a week! > > Sid Breese > 85PT40 > St. Joseph, MO Low volts and amps; was alternator - Tom Warner - 05-23-2005 13:05 FC models are saddled with two engineering design problems. The first is that to much current is running thru the dash and the second is the very long cables between the chargers, the alternator and the batteries. The more current you can divert from the dash, such as using Bosch relays for the lights, relays to get the A/C current(driver and passenger sides) out of the dash, etc. Change the battery cables to 4/0 although not the best fix nor the optimal condition, it does seem easier then to change the chargers to the passenger front bin. One more problem is that the FC models were designed to use the motorola alternator and an external regulator that senses the voltage directly across the batteries. Most people have changed that out to the Leece_Neville with the internal regulators which cause a problem. Tom 1982 FC35 Vernon Center,NY At 12:52 AM 5/24/2005 +0000, you wrote: >Hey Sid, I just went through the alternator thing last week on our 86FC >and all I can say is WOW... It turns out that my dash guages were off >by 1 volt and we checked everything at the batteries..and the back of >the alternator..and still had a substantial amperage draw..FINALLY >figured out that the REDILINE WAS DRAWING APPX 90 AMPS when >running..also make sure to check when batteries are charged otherwise >the alternator is trying to charge back the batteries pushing alot of >amperage. I replaced the alternator with a BOSCH unit 160amp special >purpose designed to charge at lower rpms (new design used on tranist >buses) I guess we will see..got a 1 yr warranty.. >Scott >86FC35 >Murrells Inlet Sc >--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Sidney Breese" ><ssbreese@a...> wrote: > > Some of you may remember my alternator belts broke. I just put the > > belts on my alternator and took Max for a spin. It registered about > > 100 amps and 11.5 volts. The amp meter went to 0 and the voltage 10. > > I turned on the generator and got close to normal for a couple of > > miles and then it did the same thing. I checked the alternator and it > > showed 11.5 volts. That may have been feedback from the batteries. > > I'm ready to buy a new alternator, but with the generator not > > supplying power to the chargers, think it might be something else. > > When I hooked up to shore power I got over 110 amps and 12.5 volts at > > the dash. Any suggestions? I need to get this solved as we are > > heading the California in a week! > > > > Sid Breese > > 85PT40 > > St. Joseph, MO Low volts and amps; was alternator - George Lowry - 05-23-2005 13:07 I had some similar indications when we first got the coach. Traced it to bad cells in the Interstate batteries, which were new. Replaced with Deka AGM's and it has worked perfectly ever since. Might want to run a specific gravity check of your batteries to make certain you don't have a bad cell. George Lowry '95 WBDA 4203 & GM 4106 (for sale) Spearfish, SD Jeff Miller wrote: > Not a lot of information to go on, could take some testing to find if > the gauges are correct, if there is a short, etc. > > If it is charging when plugged into shore power, it should charge the > same when on generator power (same chargers are used). > > It should settle down after a while to a low charge rate (current), and > around 13v. If the current and voltage stay 110a/11.5v for an extended > period, it sounds like you have a substantial short somewhere, there > should be smoke. > > Once the current/voltage settle down on shore power, try starting the > engine and run up to ~1200rpm, check the gauges again. turn off shore > power and see if the voltage/current stays as it should. > > I don't have an '84-1/2 up PT chassis wiring diagram with me, but if it > is the same as the '84-'86 FC then don't expect the dash voltmeter to > be even close with the key on. Check voltages at the batteries with a > voltmeter. > > > - Jeff Miller > http://www.wanderlodge.net > http://www.millercoachworks.com > > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Sidney Breese" > <ssbreese@a...> wrote: > >>Some of you may remember my alternator belts broke. I just put the >>belts on my alternator and took Max for a spin. It registered about >>100 amps and 11.5 volts. The amp meter went to 0 and the voltage 10. >> I turned on the generator and got close to normal for a couple of >>miles and then it did the same thing. I checked the alternator and it >>showed 11.5 volts. That may have been feedback from the batteries. >>I'm ready to buy a new alternator, but with the generator not >>supplying power to the chargers, think it might be something else. >>When I hooked up to shore power I got over 110 amps and 12.5 volts at >>the dash. Any suggestions? I need to get this solved as we are >>heading the California in a week! >> >>Sid Breese >>85PT40 >>St. Joseph, MO > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > Low volts and amps; was alternator - Jeff Miller - 05-23-2005 14:14 Hindsight is 20/20 isn't it? Granted the dash in your early '82 FC could have benefitted from the addition of a few load-reduction relays: headlamps, ignition, A/C switches for example. Fortunately BlueBird figured that out many years ago also and made production changes. Your alternator and wiring also ended in late '82, all of the 3208Ta engines had the Leece-Neville alternator with internal regulator as original equipment. The external voltage sense was retained, through at least the late '90s S-60 powered WLWB coaches, and was intended to maintain proper voltage at the power buss regardless of voltage drop over the wiring run. Many alternator folks don't understand this wiring and I usually see it mis-wired by now. Although the charger wiring is long, 1AWG is probably considered adequate for the original 90a peak charging current over perhaps 25'. Some of the battery wiring was upsized in mid-CY-1982 with the addition of the battery isolator next to the slide-out battery tray. I'm not sure that 4/0 battery cables for the 18" from battery to junction would be practical (or necessary). Perhaps a jump to 1/0 would be more manageable? Trying to use the slide-out battery tray with 4/0 wires would be difficult and other than starting current there isn't anything that normally will cause significant voltage drop in that wiring. - Jeff Miller --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner wrote: > FC models are saddled with two engineering design problems. The first is > that to much current is running thru the dash and the second is the very > long cables between the chargers, the alternator and the batteries. The > more current you can divert from the dash, such as using Bosch relays for > the lights, relays to get the A/C current(driver and passenger sides) out > of the dash, etc. Change the battery cables to 4/0 although not the best > fix nor the optimal condition, it does seem easier then to change the > chargers to the passenger front bin. One more problem is that the FC models > were designed to use the motorola alternator and an external regulator that > senses the voltage directly across the batteries. Most people have changed > that out to the Leece_Neville with the internal regulators which cause a > problem. > > Tom > 1982 FC35 > Vernon Center,NY Low volts and amps; was alternator - bobloomas - 05-24-2005 01:02 Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 9:14 PM Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Low volts and amps; was alternator I know on the 85 PT they were still useing to small of cable from the batt. ( 1.0 ) to the starter useing it as a junction still 1.0 cable to the house cable witch is 4.0 cable talk about a voltage drop. I did change out the 1.0 cable from my batt.to the main house wireing to 4.0 cable it does make a differnce in less volage drop Also on mine 85 PT B/B still were not useing relays in the head lights and to small of wire.After i up greaded to relays for the head lights and rewired the the dash lights to 10 gage wireing I can see the road at nite with out the use of driving lights and the gages with out the use of a flash light.The upgrad wireing was a inprovment to me and worth the time and money. Old birds were not built for dry camping very little batt. capacities. Birds were more suited to run the generator or go from poll to poll so who cared about voltage drop other then the fluorescent lighting with the black tube ends do to low voltage In my opinon the great thing about B/B is the over all heavy construction it gives a person something to work with and spend your money and time on. Plus you can reengineer it any way you choose to. Bob Loomas 85 PT 36 Hindsight is 20/20 isn't it? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Low volts and amps; was alternator - freewill2008 - 05-24-2005 08:35 Jeff - How did BB accomplish the 'external voltage sense' with L-N alternator? Is the external sensing point the place to put the voltmeter when adjusting the L-N regulator? Also, a general comment: When an electrical problem seems to be due to the length or size of a cable, remember to check the terminations. Crimped-on lugs do NOT get better at conducting current with age. Same is true where a lug fastens to a terminal. If in doubt, install new lugs and clean all contact points until the metal is shiny. Then apply a product like Rid-Ox before assembly. Remember that each cable end is actually TWO connections: One from cable to lug, and another from lug to terminal. That's FOUR points of failure for each run of cable (True of ground straps also). Bob Griesel --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Miller" > Hindsight is 20/20 isn't it? > > Granted the dash in your early '82 FC could have benefitted from the > addition of a few load-reduction relays: headlamps, ignition, A/C > switches for example. Fortunately BlueBird figured that out many > years ago also and made production changes. > > Your alternator and wiring also ended in late '82, all of the 3208Ta > engines had the Leece-Neville alternator with internal regulator as > original equipment. The external voltage sense was retained, through > at least the late '90s S-60 powered WLWB coaches, and was intended to > maintain proper voltage at the power buss regardless of voltage drop > over the wiring run. Many alternator folks don't understand this > wiring and I usually see it mis-wired by now. > > Although the charger wiring is long, 1AWG is probably considered > adequate for the original 90a peak charging current over perhaps 25'. > Some of the battery wiring was upsized in mid-CY-1982 with the > addition of the battery isolator next to the slide-out battery tray. > > I'm not sure that 4/0 battery cables for the 18" from battery to > junction would be practical (or necessary). Perhaps a jump to 1/0 > would be more manageable? Trying to use the slide-out battery tray > with 4/0 wires would be difficult and other than starting current > there isn't anything that normally will cause significant voltage > drop in that wiring. > > - Jeff Miller > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner > wrote: > > FC models are saddled with two engineering design problems. The > first is > > that to much current is running thru the dash and the second is the > very > > long cables between the chargers, the alternator and the batteries. > The > > more current you can divert from the dash, such as using Bosch > relays for > > the lights, relays to get the A/C current(driver and passenger > sides) out > > of the dash, etc. Change the battery cables to 4/0 although not the > best > > fix nor the optimal condition, it does seem easier then to change > the > > chargers to the passenger front bin. One more problem is that the > FC models > > were designed to use the motorola alternator and an external > regulator that > > senses the voltage directly across the batteries. Most people have > changed > > that out to the Leece_Neville with the internal regulators which > cause a > > problem. > > > > Tom > > 1982 FC35 > > Vernon Center,NY Low volts and amps; was alternator - Jeff Miller - 05-24-2005 11:11 The alternator is shipped with two straps connecting the voltage regulator to the positive and negative posts on the alternator. BlueBird removed (or ordered with it removed) the strap from the positive to the voltage regulator, and connected the voltage regulator to the coach electrical system instead. - Jeff Miller http://www.wanderlodge.net http://www.millercoachworks.com --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "freewill2008" wrote: > Jeff - How did BB accomplish the 'external voltage sense' with L-N > alternator? Is the external sensing point the place to put the > voltmeter when adjusting the L-N regulator? > > Also, a general comment: When an electrical problem seems to be due > to the length or size of a cable, remember to check the > terminations. Crimped-on lugs do NOT get better at conducting > current with age. Same is true where a lug fastens to a terminal. > If in doubt, install new lugs and clean all contact points until the > metal is shiny. Then apply a product like Rid-Ox before assembly. > Remember that each cable end is actually TWO connections: One from > cable to lug, and another from lug to terminal. That's FOUR points of > failure for each run of cable (True of ground straps also). > > Bob Griesel |