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+--- Thread: BB Direct Sales info (/showthread.php?tid=2556)
BB Direct Sales info - Tom Warner - 05-09-2006 17:56
Since Ron brought this up I guess I should extend the courtesy to him
he extended to me and reply. I did send Ron some suggestions that I
believe could make a difference for all of us and certainly the
factory. It doesnt matter what year coach you own, when people buy a
new Bluebird they normally trade in their old one and it is recycled
to another Bluebird owner wishing to move up. I believe this is a
very important aspect of ownership that Bluebird recognizes. Its
called brand loyalty. You have positive feelings about owning your
Bluebird and you wish to buy a newer one after a few years.
I early on took a very personal interest in Bluebird after buying the
1982 FC35, and on the way home from buying it in Houston, Texas,
stopping at Fort Valley, touring the factory and the Birds Nest and
witnessing many of the different procedures in building and
supporting a bluebird...and Bluebird owners. The personnel there were
superb and gave me absolutely no indication that they valued a
customer with a 20 plus year old coach any less then a owner of a new
one. That is a very different concept then other motorhome owners get
primarily since very few other 1982 motorhomes are on the road.
Bluebird should keep capitalizing on this. I have sat down and
talked to Bennie Collier many times, as I have with Ray Horne and
many others at Bluebird, each and every one of them had vast
corporate knowledge that I found invaluable. Each and everyone of
them is not only courteous but helpful beyond anything that I could
have imagined. I obtained all of the engineering drawings for the
1982 within days of purchasing it, and did the same while going thru
Fort Vally on the way home from purchasing the 1985 PT 40.
Contrary to what some may believe there is very little difference
between many of the Bluebird motorhome products as I was to find out
later, as it relates to suspensions, engines, transmissions, shocks,
body panels, glass etc. I am fortunate to have a database of Bluebird
products that includes school buses, tour buses, transit buses and of
course Bluebird Wanderlodges, that very quickly allows me to search
for a specific part and tell me all of the Bluebird products that it
is used on. You would be amazed at how many parts used on a 2004 LXI
are used on school buses, tour buses etc. Its a nice thing to have
when you are trying to restore a Bluebird for I can quickly buy parts
from any Bluebird Schoolbus, transit bus etc dealer if Fort Vally
doesnt have it. For example the Bluebird TC2000 school bus
windshield is the same one used on my 1982 FC35, exactly the same
right down to the top tint, and the school bus mechanics near me are
very proficient at working on the forward controls. When I had the
accident with the 1982 in Nashville, Tennesse , Bluebird parts did
not have the new battery door and front drivers panel, as they no
longer stocked them. However the local Bluebird School bus dealer
about 15 miles from me had a compete fabrication metal shop and made
the new panels for it, repaired the damage, painted it, and made it
as good as new. With all of these school bus and tour bus dealers
Bluebird has nationwide, doesnt it make sense to use them to servide
the Wanderlodges of any year? Bluebird could have the largest dealer
network of any motorhome manufacturer.
There are different things I covered in the email to Ron but I am
sure many of you have many many more ideas based on your experiences
with your Bluebird. If you honestly want to see them survive then
now is the time to try and help.
Tom Warner
Vernon Center,NY
1985 PT 40
(
At 01:00 AM 5/10/2006, you wrote:
>O.K. Guys. Let's keep this friendly and not personal. As a matter of
>information: Tom did send me some positive suggestions this evening
>and they all were valid. I asked Tom to post them to start a dialogue.
>
>R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40
>
>
>--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Birtles"
>
> >
> > thats why the systems are multiplexed they follow an industry standard
> > for ease of repair one or two diagnostic ports to access all the
> > electrical systems.The information bus on the 450 can be accessed from
> > the outside of the coach if need be. The canbus is industry standard
> > for almost all heavy vehicles do a search and read and learn
> > Tom wake up and smell the diesel it is easier to diagnose a problem on
> > a 450 than it ever was on a older lxi.
> > quit ragging on how good the old were and how simple it was and how
> > bad Bluebird is. It is not 1985 anymore
> > At the risk of being booted by the moderators either put up or shut up
> > nuff said
> > Stephen 77fc35
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner
> > >
> > > David you have a 2002 LXI , its a beautiful coach and complicated
> > > from the aspect of the many redundant systems and lots of work to
> > > keep it running at its peak. The engine and transmission should be no
> > > problem since it is used by many other over the road trucks and
> > > buses. But honestly how many repair facilities have you been able to
> > > find that can work on the rest of the coach, and that you have
> > > confidence in? The M450 is many levels above the LXI when it comes
> > > to finding a repair shop that can keep one running, with multiplexed
> > > wiring and manabloc plumbing. Open the panels up and look at the
> > > wiring and relays and most mechanics will scratch their heads and
> > > button everything back up. What I am saying is that there are now
> > > many many nice coaches out there, a condition that did not exist when
> > > Bluebird was in its prime. Anyone can design and build a beautiful
> > > motorhome now but the real problem is keeping it repaired. Buy one
> > > here in New York state and who is going to repair it?
> > >
> > > Tom Warner
> > > Vernon Center,NY
> > > 1985 PT 40
> > >
> > >
> > > . know At 05:53 PM 5/9/2006, you wrote:
> > > >I want to see them succeed too Tom. I test drove the 450 the
> > > >other day and it is a great coach. Should appeal to a wide audience.
> > > >We'll have to wait and see.
> > > >
> > > >David Brady
> > > >'02 LXi, Smokey
> > > >Va
> > > >
> > > >Tom Warner wrote:
> > > > > With this in mind does anyone else see something that I dont see
> > that
> > > > > will pull Bluebird out of this nose dive? I honestly want to
> > see them
> > > > > succeed and continue producting good coaches but?
> > > > >
> > > > > Tom Warner
> > > > > Vernon Center,NY
> > > > > 1985 PT 40
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >SPONSORED LINKS
> > >
> >
> ><<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Recreational+vehicles&w1=Recr
>
eational+vehicles&w2=Recreational+vehicle+financing&w3=Recreational+vehicle+repa\
ir&w4=Recreational+vehicle+rental&w5=Recreational+vehicle+camper&w6=Recreational\
+vehicle+rate&c=6&s=193&.sig=_jXmbh7qWHD7DSskzUir3w>http://groups.yahoo.com/gads\
?t=ms&k=Recreational+vehicles&w1=Recreational+vehicles&w2=Recreational+vehicle+f\
inancing&w3=Recreational+vehicle+repair&w4=Recreational+vehicle+rental&w5=Recrea\
tional+vehicle+camper&w6=Recreational+vehicle+rate&c=6&s=193&.sig=_jXmbh7qWHD7DS\
skzUir3w>Recreational
> >
> > > >vehicles
> > >
> >
> ><<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Recreational+vehicle+financin
>
g&w1=Recreational+vehicles&w2=Recreational+vehicle+financing&w3=Recreational+veh\
icle+repair&w4=Recreational+vehicle+rental&w5=Recreational+vehicle+camper&w6=Rec\
reational+vehicle+rate&c=6&s=193&.sig=f_xgT1AKZsKXD6CT0_3nwg>http://groups.yahoo\
.com/gads?t=ms&k=Recreational+vehicle+financing&w1=Recreational+vehicles&w2=Recr\
eational+vehicle+financing&w3=Recreational+vehicle+repair&w4=Recreational+vehicl\
e+rental&w5=Recreational+vehicle+camper&w6=Recreational+vehicle+rate&c=6&s=193&.\
sig=f_xgT1AKZsKXD6CT0_3nwg>Recreational
> >
> > > >vehicle financing
> > >
> >
> ><<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Recreational+vehicle+repair&w
>
1=Recreational+vehicles&w2=Recreational+vehicle+financing&w3=Recreational+vehicl\
e+repair&w4=Recreational+vehicle+rental&w5=Recreational+vehicle+camper&w6=Recrea\
tional+vehicle+rate&c=6&s=193&.sig=0EDYS_wXU1aorG4893QXpQ>http://groups.yahoo.co\
m/gads?t=ms&k=Recreational+vehicle+repair&w1=Recreational+vehicles&w2=Recreation\
al+vehicle+financing&w3=Recreational+vehicle+repair&w4=Recreational+vehicle+rent\
al&w5=Recreational+vehicle+camper&w6=Recreational+vehicle+rate&c=6&s=193&.sig=0E\
DYS_wXU1aorG4893QXpQ>Recreational
> >
> > > >vehicle repair
> > >
> >
> ><<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Recreational+vehicle+rental&w
>
1=Recreational+vehicles&w2=Recreational+vehicle+financing&w3=Recreational+vehicl\
e+repair&w4=Recreational+vehicle+rental&w5=Recreational+vehicle+camper&w6=Recrea\
tional+vehicle+rate&c=6&s=193&.sig=LNSmSf785IF1UlbWHRIOLA>http://groups.yahoo.co\
m/gads?t=ms&k=Recreational+vehicle+rental&w1=Recreational+vehicles&w2=Recreation\
al+vehicle+financing&w3=Recreational+vehicle+repair&w4=Recreational+vehicle+rent\
al&w5=Recreational+vehicle+camper&w6=Recreational+vehicle+rate&c=6&s=193&.sig=LN\
SmSf785IF1UlbWHRIOLA>Recreational
> >
> > > >vehicle rental
> > >
> >
> ><<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Recreational+vehicle+camper&w
>
1=Recreational+vehicles&w2=Recreational+vehicle+financing&w3=Recreational+vehicl\
e+repair&w4=Recreational+vehicle+rental&w5=Recreational+vehicle+camper&w6=Recrea\
tional+vehicle+rate&c=6&s=193&.sig=LoIo4UxSgNx-IyPMRku1lQ>http://groups.yahoo.co\
m/gads?t=ms&k=Recreational+vehicle+camper&w1=Recreational+vehicles&w2=Recreation\
al+vehicle+financing&w3=Recreational+vehicle+repair&w4=Recreational+vehicle+rent\
al&w5=Recreational+vehicle+camper&w6=Recreational+vehicle+rate&c=6&s=193&.sig=Lo\
Io4UxSgNx-IyPMRku1lQ>Recreational
> >
> > > >vehicle camper
> > >
> >
> ><<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Recreational+vehicle+rate&w1=
>
Recreational+vehicles&w2=Recreational+vehicle+financing&w3=Recreational+vehicle+\
repair&w4=Recreational+vehicle+rental&w5=Recreational+vehicle+camper&w6=Recreati\
onal+vehicle+rate&c=6&s=193&.sig=N3ia10-EgZXwB7kJhwD4dw>http://groups.yahoo.com/\
gads?t=ms&k=Recreational+vehicle+rate&w1=Recreational+vehicles&w2=Recreational+v\
ehicle+financing&w3=Recreational+vehicle+repair&w4=Recreational+vehicle+rental&w\
5=Recreational+vehicle+camper&w6=Recreational+vehicle+rate&c=6&s=193&.sig=N3ia10\
-EgZXwB7kJhwD4dw>Recreational
> >
> > > >vehicle rate
> > > >
> > > >
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onal+vehicles&w2=Recreational+vehicle+financing&w3=Recreational+vehicle+repair&w\
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ecreational+vehicle+rental&w5=Recreational+vehicle+camper&w6=Recreational+vehicl\
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e+rate&c=6&s=193&.sig=LNSmSf785IF1UlbWHRIOLA>Recreational
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><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Recreational+vehicle+camper&w1=Recreationa\
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BB Direct Sales info - Blair - 05-10-2006 01:44
George
Sir,
I agree totally. While the older Birds have a quality all
their own, the new
models are no different than other high end coaches. We bought a Country
Coach Intrigue 36 with slides. We have more room and storage than our
old bird, tile floor in the kitchen that has no cracks, and the handling is far
superior. We went with the smaller model to ease the problems associated with
camping in out of the way spots. The most important factor in the
decision is the
wife is happy.
Blair in Oregon
At 10:12 PM 5/9/2006, you wrote:
>.While Bluebird
>used to offer a superior product with support, the trend I have been seeing
>is one of the reasons I did not insist that we remain out of the fiberglass
>coaches.
>
>George Lowry
.
BB Direct Sales info - Gregory OConnor - 05-10-2006 02:43
SOB, But when you drive down the road, you are driving what everyone
else has. Alpine and Intrigue are nice but they aint a high end BB.
who makes them anyway, Coleman?
Gregory O'Connor Class A
94pt40 Romoland Ca--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Blair
>
> George
> Sir,
> I agree totally. While the older Birds have a quality all
> their own, the new
> models are no different than other high end coaches. We bought a
Country
> Coach Intrigue 36 with slides. We have more room and storage than
our
> old bird, tile floor in the kitchen that has no cracks, and the
handling is far
> superior. We went with the smaller model to ease the problems
associated with
> camping in out of the way spots. The most important factor in the
> decision is the
> wife is happy.
>
> Blair in Oregon
>
>
>
> At 10:12 PM 5/9/2006, you wrote:
> >.While Bluebird
> >used to offer a superior product with support, the trend I have
been seeing
> >is one of the reasons I did not insist that we remain out of the
fiberglass
> >coaches.
> >
> >George Lowry
> .
>
BB Direct Sales info - George Lowry - 05-10-2006 05:00
The Alpine Apex has become a leader in the high line coaches for several
reasons. The well designed chassis makes driving a dream. While the four
slideouts are common to may other coach makes, the Patented Smart Beds are
an exclusive that everyone else in the market will be trying to copy. This
is the ONLY slide out coach where you don't have to crawl to be able to get
into the storage. And each of the Smart Beds are rated to carry 750 lbs.
Bluebird has not even thought about such an innovation. There are many other
innovations that make the Apex very desirable.
The Alpine line is manufactured by Western Recreational Vehicles in Yakima,
WA. They have been innovative in the RV market for many years. The biggest
problem they have now is trying to produce the Apex fast enough to keep up
with sales. Bluebird wishes they had such a problem.
BTW, Last year when BB was trying to sell me a new 450 lxi, I found many
design deficiencies that were in my '95 WL. They had not learned anything in
the past ten years - and I know that WL owners were informing them of those
problems at the RIV. The WL's built by the Luce owned company were leaders
in their time. From my observation, they started down when Luce sold out.
Another thought. The comment that using BB School Bus dealers for support is
good. The owner of A-Z Bus in CA owns a WL and I have had work done at one
of their facilities and they are good. I would still own a Wanderlodge IF
they produced anything that met our requirements and were reasonable in
their dealings. When they offered me less than half of the NADA pricing but
still wanted full boat for their new one indicated that they were not in the
mood for a deal.
George Lowry
'06 Alpine Apex - Formerly '95 WBDA 4203
Spearfish, SD
-----Original Message-----
From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Gregory OConnor
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 7:44 AM
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: BB Direct Sales info
SOB, But when you drive down the road, you are driving what everyone
else has. Alpine and Intrigue are nice but they aint a high end BB.
who makes them anyway, Coleman?
Gregory O'Connor Class A
94pt40 Romoland Ca--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Blair
>
> George
> Sir,
> I agree totally. While the older Birds have a quality all
> their own, the new
> models are no different than other high end coaches. We bought a
Country
> Coach Intrigue 36 with slides. We have more room and storage than
our
> old bird, tile floor in the kitchen that has no cracks, and the
handling is far
> superior. We went with the smaller model to ease the problems
associated with
> camping in out of the way spots. The most important factor in the
> decision is the
> wife is happy.
>
> Blair in Oregon
>
>
>
> At 10:12 PM 5/9/2006, you wrote:
> >.While Bluebird
> >used to offer a superior product with support, the trend I have
been seeing
> >is one of the reasons I did not insist that we remain out of the
fiberglass
> >coaches.
> >
> >George Lowry
> .
>
Yahoo! Groups Links
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BB Direct Sales info - erniecarpet@... - 05-10-2006 07:13
In a message dated 5/10/2006 5:40:51 PM Central Daylight Time,
remarabito@... writes:
So far, everything is very positive with Fred
VanDenBerg
Since Fred is a member of the forum, we would appreciate hearing directly
from him. Ernie Ekberg
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
BB Direct Sales info - ronmarabito2002 - 05-10-2006 10:39
George:
It is very likely that that will change some. Remember, they were
under control of other investors that just wanted them to concentrate
on producing a box and to hell with anything else. Directions and
production is now controlled by Wanderlodge management. We hope to
see many improvements in the product, management and relations between
us and the company. So far, everything is very positive with Fred
VanDenBerg. I will post another message from him today after sending
him suggestions offered by Tom Warner. He was very positive in his
response to those suggestions and will be more forthcoming with
answers to questions.
R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40
--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "George Lowry"
wrote:
>
> You are quite correct about Newell - OTOH Bluebird does not follow
any such
> policy. When we were looking to move up in the wanderlodge line, (A
450lxi)
> they offered much less than the true value of our existing coach. In
fact,
> two years later, it sold for twice as much as their offer. While
Bluebird
> used to offer a superior product with support, the trend I have been
seeing
> is one of the reasons I did not insist that we remain out of the
fiberglass
> coaches.
>
> George Lowry
> '06 Alpine Apex - Formerly '95 WBDA 4203
> Spearfish, SD - visiting grandkids in Kuna, ID
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of ronmarabito2002
> Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 4:52 PM
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: BB Direct Sales info
>
>
>
> Perhaps there is some limits set between the factory and dealers that
> gives protection to the dealers. Since we are not privy to their
> agreement, we can only speculate.
>
> If it is not fair, then the dealers will all drop out and maybe that
> is the strategy. Newell functions quite well without dealers, but
> they produce custom coaches and only 33 coaches per year. Newell also
> controls their used coach market and pricing quite well, since they
> accept all trade-ins for their following to move up to newer models.
> They do a thorough inspection and repair before putting them back on
> the market with a warranty.
>
> R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner
> >
> > Ron if there is no downside to any dealer then does that mean that
> > the factory will not discount the coaches below what the dealers are
> > selling them for? If this is the case then how can they possibly
> > lower the price to be competitive in todays market like the
> > announcement indicated? Here is what the factory announced. ""The
> > efficiency of factory-direct sales will allow Blue Bird to offer our
> > customers the finest motorcoach with the best service at the most
> > attractive price," said Fred VanDenBerg, Blue Bird
> > Coachworks'director of motorcoach sales and marketing." Does this
> > mean that each dealer will have a certain area in which the factory
> > will not sell coaches direct?
> >
> > It appears that at least one dealer , John Bleakley, does not like
> > the program since they are no longer a dealer. This has got to be a
> > very bad sign for Bluebird. Time will tell.
> >
> > Tom Warner
> > Vernon Center,NY
> > 1985 PT 40
> >
> >
> > At 09:01 AM 5/9/2006, you wrote:
> > >All:
> > >
> > > I heard from Fred VanDenBerg this morning, quickly after
> > >requesting the factory thinking on Direct Sales. Here is directly
> > >what Fred had to say:
> > >
> > >"Our dealers find no fault in the Limited Factory Direct Sales
effort.
> > >Thereis no downside for any dealer. The dealer regions is protected,
> > >his prospects are protected. Ltd. Factory Direct only increases the
> > >possibility of more products being sold, and that's good for
everyone."
> > >
> > >R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40
> > >Currently in Capitol Reef NP, Utah
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >-----Original Message---
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >SPONSORED LINKS
> >
>
><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Recreational+vehicles&w1=Recreational+
>
vehicles&w2=Recreational+vehicle+financing&w3=Recreational+vehicle+repair&w4
>
=Recreational+vehicle+rental&w5=Recreational+vehicle+camper&w6=Recreational+
> vehicle+rate&c=6&s=193&.sig=_jXmbh7qWHD7DSskzUir3w>Recreational
>
> > >vehicles
> >
>
><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Recreational+vehicle+financing&w1=Recr
>
eational+vehicles&w2=Recreational+vehicle+financing&w3=Recreational+vehicle+
>
repair&w4=Recreational+vehicle+rental&w5=Recreational+vehicle+camper&w6=Recr
> eational+vehicle+rate&c=6&s=193&.sig=f_xgT1AKZsKXD6CT0_3nwg>Recreational
>
> > >vehicle financing
> >
>
><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Recreational+vehicle+repair&w1=Recreat
>
ional+vehicles&w2=Recreational+vehicle+financing&w3=Recreational+vehicle+rep
>
air&w4=Recreational+vehicle+rental&w5=Recreational+vehicle+camper&w6=Recreat
> ional+vehicle+rate&c=6&s=193&.sig=0EDYS_wXU1aorG4893QXpQ>Recreational
>
> > >vehicle repair
> >
>
><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Recreational+vehicle+rental&w1=Recreat
>
ional+vehicles&w2=Recreational+vehicle+financing&w3=Recreational+vehicle+rep
>
air&w4=Recreational+vehicle+rental&w5=Recreational+vehicle+camper&w6=Recreat
> ional+vehicle+rate&c=6&s=193&.sig=LNSmSf785IF1UlbWHRIOLA>Recreational
>
> > >vehicle rental
> >
>
><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Recreational+vehicle+camper&w1=Recreat
>
ional+vehicles&w2=Recreational+vehicle+financing&w3=Recreational+vehicle+rep
>
air&w4=Recreational+vehicle+rental&w5=Recreational+vehicle+camper&w6=Recreat
> ional+vehicle+rate&c=6&s=193&.sig=LoIo4UxSgNx-IyPMRku1lQ>Recreational
>
> > >vehicle camper
> >
>
><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Recreational+vehicle+rate&w1=Recreatio
>
nal+vehicles&w2=Recreational+vehicle+financing&w3=Recreational+vehicle+repai
>
r&w4=Recreational+vehicle+rental&w5=Recreational+vehicle+camper&w6=Recreatio
> nal+vehicle+rate&c=6&s=193&.sig=N3ia10-EgZXwB7kJhwD4dw>Recreational
>
> > >vehicle rate
> > >
> > >
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BB Direct Sales info - ronmarabito2002 - 05-10-2006 10:46
Thanks Tom. Your suggestions were forwarded and received in a very
positive light. We may be on the road to a very healthy relationship
with Wanderlodge and that sure couldn't hurt at all. I think
management is much more receptive now to suggestions to improve the
product, production, service and marketing.
Thank you again.
R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40
--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner
>
> Since Ron brought this up I guess I should extend the courtesy to him
> he extended to me and reply. I did send Ron some suggestions that I
> believe could make a difference for all of us and certainly the
> factory. It doesnt matter what year coach you own, when people buy a
> new Bluebird they normally trade in their old one and it is recycled
> to another Bluebird owner wishing to move up. I believe this is a
> very important aspect of ownership that Bluebird recognizes. Its
> called brand loyalty. You have positive feelings about owning your
> Bluebird and you wish to buy a newer one after a few years.
>
> I early on took a very personal interest in Bluebird after buying the
> 1982 FC35, and on the way home from buying it in Houston, Texas,
> stopping at Fort Valley, touring the factory and the Birds Nest and
> witnessing many of the different procedures in building and
> supporting a bluebird...and Bluebird owners. The personnel there were
> superb and gave me absolutely no indication that they valued a
> customer with a 20 plus year old coach any less then a owner of a new
> one. That is a very different concept then other motorhome owners get
> primarily since very few other 1982 motorhomes are on the road.
> Bluebird should keep capitalizing on this. I have sat down and
> talked to Bennie Collier many times, as I have with Ray Horne and
> many others at Bluebird, each and every one of them had vast
> corporate knowledge that I found invaluable. Each and everyone of
> them is not only courteous but helpful beyond anything that I could
> have imagined. I obtained all of the engineering drawings for the
> 1982 within days of purchasing it, and did the same while going thru
> Fort Vally on the way home from purchasing the 1985 PT 40.
>
> Contrary to what some may believe there is very little difference
> between many of the Bluebird motorhome products as I was to find out
> later, as it relates to suspensions, engines, transmissions, shocks,
> body panels, glass etc. I am fortunate to have a database of Bluebird
> products that includes school buses, tour buses, transit buses and of
> course Bluebird Wanderlodges, that very quickly allows me to search
> for a specific part and tell me all of the Bluebird products that it
> is used on. You would be amazed at how many parts used on a 2004 LXI
> are used on school buses, tour buses etc. Its a nice thing to have
> when you are trying to restore a Bluebird for I can quickly buy parts
> from any Bluebird Schoolbus, transit bus etc dealer if Fort Vally
> doesnt have it. For example the Bluebird TC2000 school bus
> windshield is the same one used on my 1982 FC35, exactly the same
> right down to the top tint, and the school bus mechanics near me are
> very proficient at working on the forward controls. When I had the
> accident with the 1982 in Nashville, Tennesse , Bluebird parts did
> not have the new battery door and front drivers panel, as they no
> longer stocked them. However the local Bluebird School bus dealer
> about 15 miles from me had a compete fabrication metal shop and made
> the new panels for it, repaired the damage, painted it, and made it
> as good as new. With all of these school bus and tour bus dealers
> Bluebird has nationwide, doesnt it make sense to use them to servide
> the Wanderlodges of any year? Bluebird could have the largest dealer
> network of any motorhome manufacturer.
>
> There are different things I covered in the email to Ron but I am
> sure many of you have many many more ideas based on your experiences
> with your Bluebird. If you honestly want to see them survive then
> now is the time to try and help.
>
> Tom Warner
> Vernon Center,NY
> 1985 PT 40
>
>
> (
>
>
> At 01:00 AM 5/10/2006, you wrote:
> >O.K. Guys. Let's keep this friendly and not personal. As a matter of
> >information: Tom did send me some positive suggestions this evening
> >and they all were valid. I asked Tom to post them to start a dialogue.
> >
> >R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40
> >
> >
> >--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Birtles"
> >
> > >
> > > thats why the systems are multiplexed they follow an industry
standard
> > > for ease of repair one or two diagnostic ports to access all the
> > > electrical systems.The information bus on the 450 can be
accessed from
> > > the outside of the coach if need be. The canbus is industry standard
> > > for almost all heavy vehicles do a search and read and learn
> > > Tom wake up and smell the diesel it is easier to diagnose a
problem on
> > > a 450 than it ever was on a older lxi.
> > > quit ragging on how good the old were and how simple it was and how
> > > bad Bluebird is. It is not 1985 anymore
> > > At the risk of being booted by the moderators either put up or
shut up
> > > nuff said
> > > Stephen 77fc35
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner
wrote:
> > > >
> > > > David you have a 2002 LXI , its a beautiful coach and complicated
> > > > from the aspect of the many redundant systems and lots of work to
> > > > keep it running at its peak. The engine and transmission
should be no
> > > > problem since it is used by many other over the road trucks and
> > > > buses. But honestly how many repair facilities have you been
able to
> > > > find that can work on the rest of the coach, and that you have
> > > > confidence in? The M450 is many levels above the LXI when it
comes
> > > > to finding a repair shop that can keep one running, with
multiplexed
> > > > wiring and manabloc plumbing. Open the panels up and look at the
> > > > wiring and relays and most mechanics will scratch their heads and
> > > > button everything back up. What I am saying is that there are now
> > > > many many nice coaches out there, a condition that did not
exist when
> > > > Bluebird was in its prime. Anyone can design and build a
beautiful
> > > > motorhome now but the real problem is keeping it repaired.
Buy one
> > > > here in New York state and who is going to repair it?
> > > >
> > > > Tom Warner
> > > > Vernon Center,NY
> > > > 1985 PT 40
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > . know At 05:53 PM 5/9/2006, you wrote:
> > > > >I want to see them succeed too Tom. I test drove the 450 the
> > > > >other day and it is a great coach. Should appeal to a wide
audience.
> > > > >We'll have to wait and see.
> > > > >
> > > > >David Brady
> > > > >'02 LXi, Smokey
> > > > >Va
> > > > >
> > > > >Tom Warner wrote:
> > > > > > With this in mind does anyone else see something that I
dont see
> > > that
> > > > > > will pull Bluebird out of this nose dive? I honestly want to
> > > see them
> > > > > > succeed and continue producting good coaches but?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Tom Warner
> > > > > > Vernon Center,NY
> > > > > > 1985 PT 40
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >SPONSORED LINKS
> > > >
> > >
> > ><<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Recreational+vehicles&w1=Recr
> >
eational+vehicles&w2=Recreational+vehicle+financing&w3=Recreational+vehicle+repa\
ir&w4=Recreational+vehicle+rental&w5=Recreational+vehicle+camper&w6=Recreational\
+vehicle+rate&c=6&s=193&.sig=_jXmbh7qWHD7DSskzUir3w>http://groups.yahoo.com/gads\
?t=ms&k=Recreational+vehicles&w1=Recreational+vehicles&w2=Recreational+vehicle+f\
inancing&w3=Recreational+vehicle+repair&w4=Recreational+vehicle+rental&w5=Recrea\
tional+vehicle+camper&w6=Recreational+vehicle+rate&c=6&s=193&.sig=_jXmbh7qWHD7DS\
skzUir3w>Recreational
> > >
> > > > >vehicles
> > > >
> > >
> > ><<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Recreational+vehicle+financin
> >
g&w1=Recreational+vehicles&w2=Recreational+vehicle+financing&w3=Recreational+veh\
icle+repair&w4=Recreational+vehicle+rental&w5=Recreational+vehicle+camper&w6=Rec\
reational+vehicle+rate&c=6&s=193&.sig=f_xgT1AKZsKXD6CT0_3nwg>http://groups.yahoo\
.com/gads?t=ms&k=Recreational+vehicle+financing&w1=Recreational+vehicles&w2=Recr\
eational+vehicle+financing&w3=Recreational+vehicle+repair&w4=Recreational+vehicl\
e+rental&w5=Recreational+vehicle+camper&w6=Recreational+vehicle+rate&c=6&s=193&.\
sig=f_xgT1AKZsKXD6CT0_3nwg>Recreational
> > >
> > > > >vehicle financing
> > > >
> > >
> > ><<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Recreational+vehicle+repair&w
> >
1=Recreational+vehicles&w2=Recreational+vehicle+financing&w3=Recreational+vehicl\
e+repair&w4=Recreational+vehicle+rental&w5=Recreational+vehicle+camper&w6=Recrea\
tional+vehicle+rate&c=6&s=193&.sig=0EDYS_wXU1aorG4893QXpQ>http://groups.yahoo.co\
m/gads?t=ms&k=Recreational+vehicle+repair&w1=Recreational+vehicles&w2=Recreation\
al+vehicle+financing&w3=Recreational+vehicle+repair&w4=Recreational+vehicle+rent\
al&w5=Recreational+vehicle+camper&w6=Recreational+vehicle+rate&c=6&s=193&.sig=0E\
DYS_wXU1aorG4893QXpQ>Recreational
> > >
> > > > >vehicle repair
> > > >
> > >
> > ><<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Recreational+vehicle+rental&w
> >
1=Recreational+vehicles&w2=Recreational+vehicle+financing&w3=Recreational+vehicl\
e+repair&w4=Recreational+vehicle+rental&w5=Recreational+vehicle+camper&w6=Recrea\
tional+vehicle+rate&c=6&s=193&.sig=LNSmSf785IF1UlbWHRIOLA>http://groups.yahoo.co\
m/gads?t=ms&k=Recreational+vehicle+rental&w1=Recreational+vehicles&w2=Recreation\
al+vehicle+financing&w3=Recreational+vehicle+repair&w4=Recreational+vehicle+rent\
al&w5=Recreational+vehicle+camper&w6=Recreational+vehicle+rate&c=6&s=193&.sig=LN\
SmSf785IF1UlbWHRIOLA>Recreational
> > >
> > > > >vehicle rental
> > > >
> > >
> > ><<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Recreational+vehicle+camper&w
> >
1=Recreational+vehicles&w2=Recreational+vehicle+financing&w3=Recreational+vehicl\
e+repair&w4=Recreational+vehicle+rental&w5=Recreational+vehicle+camper&w6=Recrea\
tional+vehicle+rate&c=6&s=193&.sig=LoIo4UxSgNx-IyPMRku1lQ>http://groups.yahoo.co\
m/gads?t=ms&k=Recreational+vehicle+camper&w1=Recreational+vehicles&w2=Recreation\
al+vehicle+financing&w3=Recreational+vehicle+repair&w4=Recreational+vehicle+rent\
al&w5=Recreational+vehicle+camper&w6=Recreational+vehicle+rate&c=6&s=193&.sig=Lo\
Io4UxSgNx-IyPMRku1lQ>Recreational
> > >
> > > > >vehicle camper
> > > >
> > >
> > ><<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Recreational+vehicle+rate&w1=
> >
Recreational+vehicles&w2=Recreational+vehicle+financing&w3=Recreational+vehicle+\
repair&w4=Recreational+vehicle+rental&w5=Recreational+vehicle+camper&w6=Recreati\
onal+vehicle+rate&c=6&s=193&.sig=N3ia10-EgZXwB7kJhwD4dw>http://groups.yahoo.com/\
gads?t=ms&k=Recreational+vehicle+rate&w1=Recreational+vehicles&w2=Recreational+v\
ehicle+financing&w3=Recreational+vehicle+repair&w4=Recreational+vehicle+rental&w\
5=Recreational+vehicle+camper&w6=Recreational+vehicle+rate&c=6&s=193&.sig=N3ia10\
-EgZXwB7kJhwD4dw>Recreational
> > >
> > > > >vehicle rate
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >----------
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> > > > >
> > > > > * Visit your group
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> >
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lodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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> >SPONSORED LINKS
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ional+vehicle+rental&w5=Recreational+vehicle+camper&w6=Recreational+vehicle+rate\
&c=6&s=193&.sig=_jXmbh7qWHD7DSskzUir3w>Recreational
> >vehicles
>
><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Recreational+vehicle+financing&w1=Recreati\
onal+vehicles&w2=Recreational+vehicle+financing&w3=Recreational+vehicle+repair&w\
4=Recreational+vehicle+rental&w5=Recreational+vehicle+camper&w6=Recreational+veh\
icle+rate&c=6&s=193&.sig=f_xgT1AKZsKXD6CT0_3nwg>Recreational
> >vehicle financing
>
><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Recreational+vehicle+repair&w1=Recreationa\
l+vehicles&w2=Recreational+vehicle+financing&w3=Recreational+vehicle+repair&w4=R\
ecreational+vehicle+rental&w5=Recreational+vehicle+camper&w6=Recreational+vehicl\
e+rate&c=6&s=193&.sig=0EDYS_wXU1aorG4893QXpQ>Recreational
> >vehicle repair
>
><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Recreational+vehicle+rental&w1=Recreationa\
l+vehicles&w2=Recreational+vehicle+financing&w3=Recreational+vehicle+repair&w4=R\
ecreational+vehicle+rental&w5=Recreational+vehicle+camper&w6=Recreational+vehicl\
e+rate&c=6&s=193&.sig=LNSmSf785IF1UlbWHRIOLA>Recreational
> >vehicle rental
>
><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Recreational+vehicle+camper&w1=Recreationa\
l+vehicles&w2=Recreational+vehicle+financing&w3=Recreational+vehicle+repair&w4=R\
ecreational+vehicle+rental&w5=Recreational+vehicle+camper&w6=Recreational+vehicl\
e+rate&c=6&s=193&.sig=LoIo4UxSgNx-IyPMRku1lQ>Recreational
> >vehicle camper
>
><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Recreational+vehicle+rate&w1=Recreational+\
vehicles&w2=Recreational+vehicle+financing&w3=Recreational+vehicle+repair&w4=Rec\
reational+vehicle+rental&w5=Recreational+vehicle+camper&w6=Recreational+vehicle+\
rate&c=6&s=193&.sig=N3ia10-EgZXwB7kJhwD4dw>Recreational
> >vehicle rate
> >
> >
> >----------
> >YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> > * Visit your group
> > "<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WanderlodgeForum>WanderlodgeForum"
on the web.
> > *
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odgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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> >
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> >----------
>
BB Direct Sales info - ronmarabito2002 - 05-10-2006 10:58
Go easy Greg. They have a perfect right to drive what they are happy
with. We wish they were in BB, but if their happy, then that's what
counts.
R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40
--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Gregory OConnor"
>
> SOB, But when you drive down the road, you are driving what everyone
> else has. Alpine and Intrigue are nice but they aint a high end BB.
> who makes them anyway, Coleman?
> Gregory O'Connor Class A
> 94pt40 Romoland Ca--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Blair
>
> >
> > George
> > Sir,
> > I agree totally. While the older Birds have a quality all
> > their own, the new
> > models are no different than other high end coaches. We bought a
> Country
> > Coach Intrigue 36 with slides. We have more room and storage than
> our
> > old bird, tile floor in the kitchen that has no cracks, and the
> handling is far
> > superior. We went with the smaller model to ease the problems
> associated with
> > camping in out of the way spots. The most important factor in the
> > decision is the
> > wife is happy.
> >
> > Blair in Oregon
> >
> >
> >
> > At 10:12 PM 5/9/2006, you wrote:
> > >.While Bluebird
> > >used to offer a superior product with support, the trend I have
> been seeing
> > >is one of the reasons I did not insist that we remain out of the
> fiberglass
> > >coaches.
> > >
> > >George Lowry
> > .
> >
>
BB Direct Sales info - ronmarabito2002 - 05-10-2006 11:29
All:
Fred not only responded very positively to the suggestions
forwarded to him, but he plans to send more information and
explanations about what is going on with the company and product.
He sent the following message later in the day:
>>One thing I should have mentioned, I reviewed the factory direct
plan with several owners council members and Glen King. The Factory
direct decision was not made in a vacuum. The goal is to provide the
best delivery method and service possible. Our new coach buyers
deserve that. Thank you for your help and input, I really appreciate
what you are doing of the company. I will more fully address all the
concerns when time allows.<<
Let's give him the time to fully inform us.
R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40
BB Direct Sales info - Tom Warner - 05-10-2006 14:10
Ron I have two suggestions that Bluebird management might want to consider.
1. It is extremely important when building a cohesive management
team, to have everyone realize and support the same corporate vision.
If even one member outwardly supports the vision but covertly
attempts to undermine it, thru his/her misunderstanding of that
vision, or due to some misunderstanding or past problme, then over
time its possible for failure to become the predominent force. There
is a way for management to ensure that each and every member
understands where all others are coming from and how their individual
personalities can influence their ability to support management 100%
of the time. This is the Meyers-Briggs Type Indicator. Get a
professional to come and run the classes and find out each and every
managers personality profile. To put it simply not everyone either
receives or gives information in the same way. Some are only able to
understand if they hear it verbally, while others have to read it
sometimes many times before they understand. Still others must touch
and feel it in order to fully understand even simple concepts or in
some cases even mull it over in their heads over some longer period
of time. This is not to condemn any one particular way but only to
recognize the differences. This is very important for there are times
during a management meeting when the same person again and again
voices the opinion that some certain thing can't succeed. What he/she
might in fact be saying is that they haven't fully understood it yet.
They are in essence afraid to support something they dont understand
or has a better way of doing it.
You want to find out just how good your management team is, Tell them
to go off site to a private place for a few days, no family, no
phones, no TV, just association with the other members of management.
Have them take a big pad of butcher paper and inform every member of
management that the top guy (hes the one that will announce it) wants
to know the good and bad points of the company, things that may be
hurting us in todays market. Divide the paper into negative and
positive sides so that each member can voice their opinions. Have
the moderator write them down (the CEO isnt there), and make each
input without connecting names to it. If you have a good management
team that does not feel threatened, they will speak freely about the
company (thats what they are getting paid for), the observations will
start to haltingly come. Take each and every one seriously and
complement the person for being brave enough to voice his/her true
feelings. Be ready for some big surprises. Then let the CEO have the
pad and review it with the moderator.
2. Top management has to manage by walking around, and give everyone
the impression in both words and body language that he/she is
comfortable doing it. The CEO must establish early on that he will be
walking around and talking to individuals at every level, even the
assembly line, the dining room and paint booth. The CEOs first rule
should be that he better have every level of management reporting
problems and recommendations to him FIRST before he hears about it
when he is walking around. Every single day I walked thru every
section and sat down with different people to talk. At first they
were apprehensive but after a while they just accepted it as the way
things were and started to talk to me about everything. Middle
managers were a little shakey at first but it wasnt long before
everyone understood and upper management felt the pulse of the
organization. Members at every level quickly knew that each and every
one of them were important to the companies success. Bad performance
was not tolerated and good performance was recognized by top
management right on the spot. The CEO found out who the top
performers were due to his walking around experience and could give a
cash award for that performance when he was walking around and right
before the workers peers. Thats a tremendous incentive in any company
and a strong enforcement that management is serious about producing a
superior product .
3. Compile a list of present Bluebird owners that are willing to
work with owners of new Bluebirds to help them get up to speed in
learning the many systems in their new coaches, so they can gain
confidence in it quickly. When a new Bluebird owner picks up his
coach he would receive the name of a person near him that is
knowledgeable about Bluebirds that he could call or visit for
help. For first time owners of a Bluebird the Dash alone can be very
intimidating and I have seen owners that have owned their coach for
a year that still dont know the function of all of the switches and
gauges. Does Bluebird make a DVD to go along with the coach that
explains the complete coach including what to do if a slide does not
work for instance?
4. Give every new Bluebird owner a list of Bluebird Wanderlodge Forum
members by state and area with phone numbers and addresses that they
can call if help is needed. Many of us are knowledgeable about where
the good repair shops are and can offer assistance in an emergency
and know what kind of assistance is needed. To this end we need to
get more forum members to sign up now so we can build a larger
list. I believe this is a very strong indicator of Brand loyalty
and can make a new owner feel very secure that help is very close
from people that understand. While Bluebird has one of the best
trained individuals with a vast amount of corporate knowledge about
Bluebirds in Benny Collier he is often times swamped with calls and
cant respond. This could be a second quick response avenue.
Tom Warner
Vernon Center,NY
1985 PT 40, now under restoration
At 07:29 PM 5/10/2006, you wrote:
>All:
>
> Fred not only responded very positively to the suggestions
>forwarded to him, but he plans to send more information and
>explanations about what is going on with the company and product.
>
> He sent the following message later in the day:
>
> >>One thing I should have mentioned, I reviewed the factory direct
>plan with several owners council members and Glen King. The Factory
>direct decision was not made in a vacuum. The goal is to provide the
>best delivery method and service possible. Our new coach buyers
>deserve that. Thank you for your help and input, I really appreciate
>what you are doing of the company. I will more fully address all the
>concerns when time allows.<<
>
> Let's give him the time to fully inform us.
>
>R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40
>
>
>
>
>
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