David,



I'd be surprised if Ross doesn't go ballistic over your post.



>From what I've heard and read about the 450's is even after the fix


they have a cargo capacity of maybe a case of beer. That's not ground

up engineering. That a screw up!



It's time we faced it folks, the factory has run it`s course. It's

over, CCW has bought a Brand name and they are running with it.

That's fine, The son is not guilty of the fathers sins. It must be

disheartening to have bought into this position.



We are the people who will continue the Legacy. It won't be the guy

that drops 1.2 Million on a coach, because when he gets pissed he

sells or sues and moves on,.



Our time is now. The Wanderlodge is now a collectable, an antique, a

classic vehicle, it will remain as such because of us. Why, because

we want it to, not because of factory support.



If you call waiting 5 to 10 weeks to get a few aluminized pipes for

my exhaust factory support, then I can do with out it. I'll just

build it myself, and if you want one I'll build one for you, now

that's owner support!



Kurt Horvath

94 PT 42

10AC



PS. In our case we drive more than we camp so the slides are just in

the way. Sooner or latter your going to have an argument with that

slide



--- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com",
David Brady "dmb993@..."

wrote:

>

> But one could also argue that someone invented electronics which

> resulted in a demand for dvd players, televisions, computers,

> electric refrigerators, gps units, hi-fidelity sound systems, etc.


The

> customer then demanded all of these features in their motorhome

> which unfortunately required heavy batteries and heavy generators,

> which then resulted in heavy chassis, axles and tires; culminating


in

> a coach which overloads it's suspension. The list goes on. People

> invent things which are cool, the buying public demands cool things

> in their motorhomes, and manufacturers scramble to accommodate

> these cool things. If the manufacturers delay, they lose market

share.

> Slides are in this category.

>

> It's not the demand for features that damaged/ruined the

> motorhome manufacturer, it's the manufacturer's rush to

> accommodate these features without first doing the necessary

> engineering.

>

> BB actually stands out amongst these manufacturers by their

insistence

> on doing the necessary engineering. Every slide equipped BB was

> designed from the ground up to accommodate a slide. Never did BB

> simply take an existing bus and chop a hole in the side of it. In

all

> cases the overall superstructure from basement triangulation, to

> subframes, to side and roof construction was designed to support

> slide technology. This can not be said of every manufacturer. By

> providing slides in their coaches, BB brought it's product line
into

> the 2000's and sustained (for a few additional years) it's

Wanderlodge

> business. This is what I mean by "slide-outs saved 'em".

>

>

> David Brady

> '02 LXi, NC

>

> Don Bradner wrote:

> >

> > David, as someone who moved from slides to no-slides

deliberately, I

> > would say there is a big difference between demise and ruin
in

this

> > instance.

> >

> > A lot of manufacturers were dragged kicking and screaming
into

the

> > slide business because they had to (because demise was the
other

> > choice). Slides did a lot of damage (ruin) to many coach
models,

and

> > it is likely an M450 wouldn't have weight problems without
them.

We

> > would all have been better off (in my opinion) if the slide
had

not

> > been invented so the public wouldn't have insisted on them.

> >

> > Don Bradner

> > 90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"

> > My location: www.bbirdmaps.com/user2.cfm?user=1

> >

> > On 10/28/2008 at 7:55 AM David Brady wrote:

> >

> > >Actually, slide-outs saved 'em. Imagine trying to sell

> > >a motorhome today w/o a slide out. Impossible. The

> > >buying public demands expandable rooms. There are

> > >many things that may have spelled the demise of
Wanderlodge,

> > >but please, let's not single out the expandable room.

> > >

> > >David Brady

> > >'02 LXi, (Living room slide, works great)

> > >

> > >

> > >Lloyd Chaffin wrote:

> > >>

> > >> John,

> > >>

> > >> I will keep my M380 because I do like it and I have
put too

much

> > >> blood sweat and tears into it now to give up. Alot
of M380

owners did

> > >> give up and got rid of it. I enjoy reading about you
guys who

have

> > >> the older "Real" Birds and I am kind of envious. My
father-in-

law

> > >> owned 10 Birds in his life. His last was a 97 and he
said he

wouldn't

> > >> buy another one because they where going to start
putting

slide outs

> > >> in them and that would ruin em. Ha, he was so right!

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >> ----------------------------------------------------------

> > >>

> > >>

> >

> >

> > ----------------------------------------------------------

------

> >

> > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.

> > Checked by AVG.

> > Version: 7.5.405 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1715 - Release
Date:

10/9/2008 12:00 AM

> >

>

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.

Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.405 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1715 - Release Date: 10/9/2008 12:00 AM

David, I know we are getting off subject here for this RIV thread but I

must respond to your slide comments. I agree with everything you are

saying. Once everybody went to slides Bluebird had to or they would have

never sold any coaches. And they did do what you just explained to a

point. They desinged a great slide structure into the coach but a slide

is only as good as it's weakest link. No matter how strong it's

structure is if it won't slide in and out or leaks like a water falls

when it rains then it would be best not to have it. If I'm not mistaken

doesn't your 02 LXI have the air seal on your slide. How many times have

you had it replaced because it leaks? The air seals and the electronics

were a very weak link on the LXI and M380 and since they never worked

right the slide was a major pain. I don't no about the LXI owners but

alot of M380 owners actually got rid of it because of the slides and

some other issues. If you had a 80 thousand dollar Lexus that ran like a

swiss watch but the driver door would not stay shut and leaked when it

rains would you say you had a great car? The differance in my example is

that I bet Lexus would have fixed my drivers door the 1st time I took it

to them. I know people who have had their air seals replaced 5 or 6

times. The 1st time I drove my coach all the way to Georgia to have my

air seals fixed they put some supper glue on them and gave it back to

me. Said it was fixed. Lasted about 2 weeks before they started leaking

again. But, the good news is I have worked on my slides so much now that

I just about know how to fix them myself if I could just get the parts.

Some of the electronics are real hard to fix but the air seals are made

by HWH and the newer seals are lasting must longer now,,,knock on wood.



I hope you have a great day, I'm fixen to get the Bird ready to go to

the Nascar races at Texas Motor Speedway,



Lloyd Chaffin



2004 M380



--- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com",
David Brady "dmb993@..." wrote:

>

> But one could also argue that someone invented electronics which

> resulted in a demand for dvd players, televisions, computers,

> electric refrigerators, gps units, hi-fidelity sound systems, etc.
The

> customer then demanded all of these features in their motorhome

> which unfortunately required heavy batteries and heavy generators,

> which then resulted in heavy chassis, axles and tires; culminating
in

> a coach which overloads it's suspension. The list goes on. People

> invent things which are cool, the buying public demands cool things

> in their motorhomes, and manufacturers scramble to accommodate

> these cool things. If the manufacturers delay, they lose market
share.

> Slides are in this category.

>

> It's not the demand for features that damaged/ruined the

> motorhome manufacturer, it's the manufacturer's rush to

> accommodate these features without first doing the necessary

> engineering.

>

> BB actually stands out amongst these manufacturers by their
insistence

> on doing the necessary engineering. Every slide equipped BB was

> designed from the ground up to accommodate a slide. Never did BB

> simply take an existing bus and chop a hole in the side of it. In
all

> cases the overall superstructure from basement triangulation, to

> subframes, to side and roof construction was designed to support

> slide technology. This can not be said of every manufacturer. By

> providing slides in their coaches, BB brought it's product line
into

> the 2000's and sustained (for a few additional years) it's
Wanderlodge

> business. This is what I mean by "slide-outs saved 'em".

>

>

> David Brady

> '02 LXi, NC

>

> Don Bradner wrote:

> >

> > David, as someone who moved from slides to no-slides
deliberately, I

> > would say there is a big difference between demise and ruin
in this

> > instance.

> >

> > A lot of manufacturers were dragged kicking and screaming
into the

> > slide business because they had to (because demise was the
other

> > choice). Slides did a lot of damage (ruin) to many coach
models, and

> > it is likely an M450 wouldn't have weight problems without
them. We

> > would all have been better off (in my opinion) if the slide
had not

> > been invented so the public wouldn't have insisted on them.

> >

> > Don Bradner

> > 90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"

> > My location: www.bbirdmaps.com/user2.cfm?user=1

> >

> > On 10/28/2008 at 7:55 AM David Brady wrote:

> >

> > >Actually, slide-outs saved 'em. Imagine trying to sell

> > >a motorhome today w/o a slide out. Impossible. The

> > >buying public demands expandable rooms. There are

> > >many things that may have spelled the demise of
Wanderlodge,

> > >but please, let's not single out the expandable room.

> > >

> > >David Brady

> > >'02 LXi, (Living room slide, works great)

> > >

> > >

> > >Lloyd Chaffin wrote:

> > >>

> > >> John,

> > >>

> > >> I will keep my M380 because I do like it and I have
put too much

> > >> blood sweat and tears into it now to give up. Alot
of M380 owners

did

> > >> give up and got rid of it. I enjoy reading about you
guys who

have

> > >> the older "Real" Birds and I am kind of envious. My
father-in-law

> > >> owned 10 Birds in his life. His last was a 97 and he
said he

wouldn't

> > >> buy another one because they where going to start
putting slide

outs

> > >> in them and that would ruin em. Ha, he was so right!

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >> ----------------------------------------------------------

> > >>

> > >>

> >

> >

> >

----------------------------------------------------------

> >

> > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.

> > Checked by AVG.

> > Version: 7.5.405 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1715 - Release
Date:

10/9/2008 12:00 AM

> >

>

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.

Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.405 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1715 - Release Date: 10/9/2008 12:00 AM