Wanderlodge Gurus - The Member Funded Wanderlodge Forum

(06-09-2013 03:26)nedb Wrote: [ -> ]Still, I'm getting a kick out of your pool monitor. Imagine monitoring your pool temperature from the banks of Puget Sound~it does suggest possibilities.

Hey Ned,

It is a kick; I have to agree! A thermometer's not a very interesting device but a networked thermometer is endlessly fascinating. :-) What's even cooler is fastening my swimming pool to the back of a semi, towing it across country, and monitoring the water temperature the entire way, and from anywhere! That's what we're doing here.

What I find reassuring is the reliability of the SAN, (at least so far). I've had my XBee's running for well over a month in a simple coordinator and router mesh network; i.e., a 2 node network. (Every ZigBee mesh needs one XBee acting as a coordinator; the remaining XBee's in the mesh are routers, but there is the concept of an edge XBee). I've left my simple network untouched for weeks, then I come along and make a keystroke and suddenly the mesh is alive and communicating. It's always up! Very impressive reliability so far, and I'm finding the same quality of up-time with my XIG gateway and Cloud connectivity. (at least so far).

Any existing MiFi account will work, you just need to add another device to the plan and activate it on your XIG. If you have a family plan this might be economical. For those who'd rather buy as they go the sliced up M2M accounts (http://www.embeddedworks.net) may be the most affordable.

I'm fairly certain that the Internet enabled home thermostats at Lowes require a statically assigned global IP address to be accessible over the web - they're really meant for home networks where locally assigned (NAT) IP address aren't a problem. I believe this is the challenge of a mobile SAN - morphing local IP addresses into a global address as the devices move across the country and providing an abstract name server scheme that allows WaGu to resolve down to the target XBee regardless of the user account we're working with and the location of the Wanderlodge. (this is the magic of the Cloud :-)

Of course, one doesn't need to use the Cloud; it's not required. The XIG can talk directly to any website. For WaGu the Cloud helps with scalability. I'd like WaGu to have a set of general purpose PHP scripts that do basic functions. I'd like WaGu to index into the PHP using an account identifier and I'd like it to pull deviceID's out of the Cloud using the same account identifier. Most of what I'm trying to do is related to giving WaGu the facilities necessary to provide monitoring and control for anyone who wants it; hence, my reliance on the convenience and scalability of the Cloud.

As you discovered the Digi Device Cloud does offer free Developer accounts for up to 5 devices. This is clearly the way to go. Anyone who wants to implement a SAN in their 'lodge would register for a free Developer account. The way I understand it you're limited to 5 devices, but a device is defined to be a XIG gateway. You can hang as many XBee's off your mesh as you'd like and they can all report, but Digi counts the whole shebang as one Device identified by the XIG.

Here's some properties that I pulled off the Cloud to help identify some of the numbers in the XML form:

product: XIG PC Gateway
company: Digi International
MAC Address: 07:2B:2A:16:1F:00
deviceid: 00000000-00000000-001F16FF-FF2A2B07
XBee extended address (coordinator): 00:13:a2:00:40:a0:3d:2f
XBee extended address (router): 00:13:a2:00:40:a0:3d:3f
primary interface IP Address: 10.119.77.174
global Address: 208.81.155.21 (I altered this to protect the innocent :-))

So in the XML response form we have:

The identifier for the Gateway (XIG) device:
devConnectwareId: 00000000-00000000-001F16FF-FF2A2B07

The identifer for the XBee coordinator hanging off the Gateway (XIG):
xpExtAddr: 00:13:A2:00:40:A0:3D:2F

The identifier for the XBee router (this is the XBee that's piggybacked onto my temperature sensing Arduino):
ddInstanceName: XBee_40A03DF3

Not sure what this identifier represents, possibly my loginId:
cstId: 4736


This page will point you to Windows/Linux/Apple XIG downloads.

About MiFi as a 2-way monitoring/command-control for SAN. I have a MiFi that is always on. It uses a DHCP-assigned temporary IP address, but it rarely needs rebooting, so it keeps the address for weeks and months. Still, it isn't as stable as a static IP.

I can't recall the name at the moment, but there is a service on the 'net that will let anyone associate a domain with a dynamic ip address.

I believe it originally was developed by gamers for gamers--because some network multiplayer games don't perform well unless the player is on a static IP address. Since many gamers are broadband subscribers using a DHCP-assigned IP address from their broadband company, they turn to this service to virtualize the temporary IP as the internet-reachable server for their domain. Presumably, the service has a big block of static IPs to loan. Further, I presume that the gamer runs a script or process that keeps the service's DNS record updated with their current dynamic IP.

I've never used it, but I have seen the option on routers. It is just a checkbox, something like "Allow <servicename> y/n" I don't even know what fees apply, I just have the scant information stored in long term memory as a work-around option, possibly useful. Shouldn't be too hard to run it down WHEN MY XBEE GEAR FINALLY GETS HERE and I can noodle around productively with remote monitoring and control.

You're probably right about the internet thermostats actually being just intranet thermostats. I imagined they had unique identifiers and communicated with a server somewhere, sort of like the digi cloud. A cloud of thermostats, has it really come to this?

Looking at the downloads today, trying to find that gateway for apple....

(06-09-2013 19:35)nedb Wrote: [ -> ]I can't recall the name at the moment, but there is a service on the 'net that will let anyone associate a domain with a dynamic ip address.

There may be several, but the most common are run by dyndns, dyn.com using many different names like dyndns.net, dyndns.com, etc.

I have an account through them with an address at dyndns.org, it is like this: xxxx.dyndns.org.

I have multiple webcams on a recorder at my home, and this allows me access from anywhere. I set a specific port, then forward that through my home router to the DVR. My home DSL modem-router is dyndns aware, so if its IP changes it sends it to dyndns. The DVR can do it as well, but it is nice to have it done by the modem.

I also have 16 webcams at my business, but there I have static IPs, so dyndns is not required.

Thanks guys!

From what I've gathered to this point, DynDNS should work; it should keep us connected. Dyn.com subscription rates for what we need are $25 per year, $2.50 per month. We'd do an fsockopen() on port 80 with the targeted DynDNS hostID, which would be a users ZigBee Internet Gateway (XIG). Then we'd send our HTTP methods specifying the deviceID of our target XIG. I can store user's hostID's and deviceID's in WaGu's MySQL and provide a webpage for each user. :-)

(06-09-2013 20:45)DonB Wrote: [ -> ]My home DSL modem-router is dyndns aware, so if its IP changes it sends it to dyndns. The DVR can do it as well, but it is nice to have it done by the modem.

Nice! My ISP doesn't support it in cable modem firmware AND I'm stuck with their preferred cable modem to support their VoIP service. Would be nice to have more choices, in that department. OK, what I really mean is in all departments related to cable.

I have a wireless router (an Asus, a couple years old ) with the dyndns option, so I have something that could make up that aspect of the XIG. So the wireless router would use the mifi as a gateway to the 'net, and I think the MiFi would have to send incoming XIG traffic to the Asus. Boy, I don't know, I wouldn't want all port 80 traffic on the XIG connection. May be feasible if the MiFi has true router features, but I don't think it does.

I'm still left to wonder if the device cloud forwards my goals. Obviously, I can get together all the device identifiers and sensors in a lookup table and even compose XML to identify data types, sensor data, etc. What remains is who to send it to, and what protocol to use. HTML for text, not a bad choice. The device cloud would store it for me, and let Wagu download it for analysis, storage. I can see there's a budding market for services like that, but I'm not clear what it offers me for the money. I could do most of that right here in my coach, without transmitting it to a remote cloud.

I'm not slow, I just have farther to go. I go around my hand to get to my thumb

Ah! I remember now--the thrust of the cloud and Wagu storage is *remote monitoring*. There's monitoring, and then there's remote monitoring like Don's camera system or David pool temperature display. As a paid service, it would be analogous to Don paying a security company to monitor his cams, respond to alarms, and so forth.

Is Wagu preparing to do these things, David?

WaGu is a not-for-profit, non-business, non-advertiser endeavor. If there were to be a business model to spring from this it would have to divest itself from WaGu. So, if I'm following your inquiry I'd say no, WaGu is not preparing itself for a paid service to the WaGu community. Whatever is here on WaGu is free. Having said all that, my account with goDaddy has all the services required to do the things we've been speaking of and I'd love few things more than to offer these services to the community here on WaGu.

(06-09-2013 23:21)nedb Wrote: [ -> ]May be feasible if the MiFi has true router features, but I don't think it does.

I have a longstanding dislike of the MiFi that centers around things like that. In other words, lack of versatility.

For whatever reason, Verizon and the others really like to promote their MiFi devices.

Instead, I have always used an air card, what Verizon calls "USB Modem." I can stick it in a laptop when I'm out and about, although I only occasionally do that. Most of the time it resides in a Cradlepoint MBR-1000 router, with an external antenna plugged into it. With a Cradlepoint I can do all of the normal router things like DMZ, firewall configuration, etc. That includes dyndns, although I've not used that feature in this router.

There is the one-time cost of the Cradlepoint (several years ago for me), but after that the cost for the air card is the same per month as a MiFi.

(06-10-2013 01:05)DonB Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-09-2013 23:21)nedb Wrote: [ -> ]May be feasible if the MiFi has true router features, but I don't think it does.

I have a longstanding dislike of the MiFi that centers around things like that. In other words, lack of versatility.

Yep. MiFi is sold to people who like to throw it on the dashboard like an order of cheeseburgers. Moves easily between whatever they're driving. A no fuss solution that appeals to people who like phone-sized portable appliances. Less tech-oriented people seem to find it manageable--they get it at the store, the salesman configures it for them on the spot, and thereafter it is more or less On/Off, and that's all. I drew the line at antennas--MiFi is OK only if I can use it with assurances of the best signal. I ended up with a Wilson cell phone amplifier, trucker's antenna, and MiFi. I defy you to demonstrate thr difference in bandwidth.

A wireless router ought to be able to use MiFi over a wireless connection, pretty much like a Cradlepoint router with Aircard. I've never tried routing traffic with it. I guess the time for doing that is drawing near. There may be gotchas that wouldn't arise with a true router. We shall see.

At any rate, I envy the simplicity of the XIG pulling the data from the sensors/radiosn over the gateway, with a pre-configured command! but I think for my purposes, I might approach the problem from the other end, pushing it from the sensors/Arduinos to a collection point on my intranet. Given the XBee/Arduino's capabilities, it could be as simple as writing data to a remote disk. Remember rcp? Remote copy >> into an existing file is all it should take to aggregate sensor data into a flat file that I can mail or process or locally. If it then needs to go somewhere on the internet, then that's what the existing telecom connection is for, or what the dyndns address will do for remote data collection.

Finally, a use for all this information design stuff that I used to daydream about when I worked for the less adventurous They (wireless phone companies) were among the most boring technologists in the history of the world. They were scared to death by "new" acronyms like XML. I learned everything I need to know about XML from a couple of weekends at the local coimmunity college. The telcos were like "this is a paradigm shift, it requires careful consoideration." Yeah right.

(06-10-2013 00:26)davidmbrady Wrote: [ -> ]WaGu is a not-for-profit, non-business, non-advertiser endeavor. If there were to be a business model to spring from this it would have to divest itself from WaGu. So, if I'm following your inquiry I'd say no, WaGu is not preparing itself for a paid service to the WaGu community. Whatever is here on WaGu is free. Having said all that, my account with goDaddy has all the services required to do the things we've been speaking of and I'd love few things more than to offer these services to the community here on WaGu.

Sorry about that, I didn't mean to be prickly. I had a sudden sense of the connectedness of all things, and went with it when I should have filtered.

Our little skunkworks project already has enough scope to keep me busy in my spare time. And it is the most stimulating thing I have to do, by far. Looking forward to electronic parts parcels arriving this week.

The real question for most of us watching is when will we be able to log in to WaGu and see our bird's internal temp next to our name at the top of the page????


Not being particularly techie, I could care less about SQuare L's, RinTinTin's or Killer Bees!

This is exactly what I'd like WaGu to do John. We can set it up right now. You need a gateway to the internet and a wireless temperature sensor to place anywhere in the coach that you'd like. I think once you see the temperature you may eventually want to monitor other things like shore power voltage, whether the genny is running, or which AC's are turned on. This naturally leads to the desire to control these things regardless of yours or the buses location. This is why I latched onto the ZigBee digital radio concept coupled with cellular internet access. There are many ways to skin this cat, but my opinion is that if we want WaGu to function as the client then relying a Device Cloud server is the way to go. (I'm trying to keep the geek-speak at a minimum and failing terribly)! :-)

So you'd need an:

1) XBee Pro Series 2 (digital radio): $40,
2) DiGi ConnectPort X2 (ZigBee Gateway): $100,
3) CDMA/GSM Cellular Router: $250 to $300, and a
4) Cellular Data Plan ((buy as you go): $4 to $8 per month

It sounds like a very expensive thermometer and that's because it's not just a thermometer - it's an expandable general purpose platform that can control and monitor your bus regardless of either's location (as long as there's wireless connectivity).

Oh, and we need some poor unpaid volunteer to cobble up some PHP code on WaGu!