A friend with a 1986 PT40 called with a weird power problem to his hot water
heater. He says the 110V power is routed through a relay in the 110 power line
before the normal on/off switch. It appears the relay is one of those 12V
switched relays which controls the 110 power. He has not been able to trace it
to see where the 12V leads go to. The relay appears to be stuck open now and he
gets no power to the hot water heater. If he by-passes the relay, and turns the
on/off switch on, he gets power and hot water.
I do not remember having that set up on my 83, nor on my 91. Does anyone have a
power setup like that for their hot water heater power? What is controlling the
12V power source? An over temperature switch/sensor somewhere? Or is this some
prior owner's undocumented "upgrade"? He is concerned about just bypassing the
relay without knowing what it is for.
Thanks for any ideas.
Mike Bulriss
1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan" (with hot water)
San Antonio, TX (balmy triple digits are us)
Mike:
The 12vdc is supplied from a hot source, but what your friend is looking
for is the red or black wire that is hooked to the ground source which is
the water from the water heater it's self. It is connected to a sensor
(plastic plug with a screw in it held by jb weld usually) at the out put
side of the water heater piping in a brass T fitting. when water is in the
piping it supplies the ground via the water and pulls the relay passing the
110 vac to the ecu and heating coil. tell your friend he can by pass the
ground but that defeats the safety, which is what it was intendeed to do to
begin with
Safe travels,
Ralph and Charolette Fullenwider
"84FC35 "Ruff Diamond"
Duncan, Oklahoma
At 04:27 AM 8/2/2011 +0000, you wrote:
>A friend with a 1986 PT40 called with a weird power problem to his hot
>water heater. He says the 110V power is routed through a relay in the 110
>power line before the normal on/off switch. It appears the relay is one
>of those 12V switched relays which controls the 110 power. He has not
>been able to trace it to see where the 12V leads go to. The relay appears
>to be stuck open now and he gets no power to the hot water heater. If he
>by-passes the relay, and turns the on/off switch on, he gets power and hot
>water.
>
>I do not remember having that set up on my 83, nor on my 91. Does anyone
>have a power setup like that for their hot water heater power? What is
>controlling the 12V power source? An over temperature switch/sensor
>somewhere? Or is this some prior owner's undocumented "upgrade"? He is
>concerned about just bypassing the relay without knowing what it is for.
>
>Thanks for any ideas.
>
>Mike Bulriss
>1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan" (with hot water)
>San Antonio, TX (balmy triple digits are us)
>
>
Thanks Ralph,
I sent your explanation on to him. He did not want to bypass any safety devices. Is that a common Bird wire job. I do not remember any power relays when I changed the hot water heater on my 83.
Mike Bulriss
1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan"
toasty San Antonio, TX
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 1, 2011, at 11:34 PM, "Ralph L. Fullenwider" <"rlf47@swbell.net"> wrote:
Mike:
The 12vdc is supplied from a hot source, but what your friend is looking
for is the red or black wire that is hooked to the ground source which is
the water from the water heater it's self. It is connected to a sensor
(plastic plug with a screw in it held by jb weld usually) at the out put
side of the water heater piping in a brass T fitting. when water is in the
piping it supplies the ground via the water and pulls the relay passing the
110 vac to the ecu and heating coil. tell your friend he can by pass the
ground but that defeats the safety, which is what it was intendeed to do to
begin with
Safe travels,
Ralph and Charolette Fullenwider
"84FC35 "Ruff Diamond"
Duncan, Oklahoma
At 04:27 AM 8/2/2011 +0000, you wrote:
>A friend with a 1986 PT40 called with a weird power problem to his hot
>water heater. He says the 110V power is routed through a relay in the 110
>power line before the normal on/off switch. It appears the relay is one
>of those 12V switched relays which controls the 110 power. He has not
>been able to trace it to see where the 12V leads go to. The relay appears
>to be stuck open now and he gets no power to the hot water heater. If he
>by-passes the relay, and turns the on/off switch on, he gets power and hot
>water.
>
>I do not remember having that set up on my 83, nor on my 91. Does anyone
>have a power setup like that for their hot water heater power? What is
>controlling the 12V power source? An over temperature switch/sensor
>somewhere? Or is this some prior owner's undocumented "upgrade"? He is
>concerned about just bypassing the relay without knowing what it is for.
>
>Thanks for any ideas.
>
>Mike Bulriss
>1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan" (with hot water)
>San Antonio, TX (balmy triple digits are us)
>
>
Yes that is a common Bird thing. It is in the prints and the sensors were
still available from PMMI last I heard, but one can build their own easily
enough. It is designed to keep 110vac from getting to the heating coil if
there is no water in the water tank or lines, this stops flash steam as
well as a host of other problems. As most things Birds, it is actually a
back up if the ECU sensor on the tank fails. I would have to go look but I
believe the black wire is the hot and the red went to the ground sensor.
The relay is located in a 4x4 electrical box and usually has a plain brown
cover.
Many of these were eliminated when a water heater was changed out, and
while the over temp ECU is still in place if that ever fails, then a Family
can very well be in danger.
Not trying to be a gloom and doom here, just fact.
Safe travels,
Ralph and Charolette Fullenwider
"84FC35 "Ruff Diamond"
Duncan, Oklahoma
At 10:17 AM 8/2/2011 -0500, you wrote:
>Thanks Ralph,
>
>I sent your explanation on to him. He did not want to bypass any safety
>devices. Is that a common Bird wire job. I do not remember any power
>relays when I changed the hot water heater on my 83.
>
>Mike Bulriss
>1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan"
>toasty San Antonio, TX
>
>Sent from my iPhone
>
>On Aug 1, 2011, at 11:34 PM, "Ralph L. Fullenwider"
><rlf47@...> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>Mike:
>>
>>The 12vdc is supplied from a hot source, but what your friend is looking
>>for is the red or black wire that is hooked to the ground source which is
>>the water from the water heater it's self. It is connected to a sensor
>>(plastic plug with a screw in it held by jb weld usually) at the out put
>>side of the water heater piping in a brass T fitting. when water is in the
>>piping it supplies the ground via the water and pulls the relay passing the
>>110 vac to the ecu and heating coil. tell your friend he can by pass the
>>ground but that defeats the safety, which is what it was intendeed to do to
>>begin with
>>
>>Safe travels,
>>
>>Ralph and Charolette Fullenwider
>>"84FC35 "Ruff Diamond"
>>Duncan, Oklahoma
>>
>>At 04:27 AM 8/2/2011 +0000, you wrote:
>> >A friend with a 1986 PT40 called with a weird power problem to his hot
>> >water heater. He says the 110V power is routed through a relay in the 110
>> >power line before the normal on/off switch. It appears the relay is one
>> >of those 12V switched relays which controls the 110 power. He has not
>> >been able to trace it to see where the 12V leads go to. The relay appears
>> >to be stuck open now and he gets no power to the hot water heater. If he
>> >by-passes the relay, and turns the on/off switch on, he gets power and hot
>> >water.
>> >
>> >I do not remember having that set up on my 83, nor on my 91. Does anyone
>> >have a power setup like that for their hot water heater power? What is
>> >controlling the 12V power source? An over temperature switch/sensor
>> >somewhere? Or is this some prior owner's undocumented "upgrade"? He is
>> >concerned about just bypassing the relay without knowing what it is for.
>> >
>> >Thanks for any ideas.
>> >
>> >Mike Bulriss
>> >1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan" (with hot water)
>> >San Antonio, TX (balmy triple digits are us)
>> >
>> >
>
>
Hi Mike,
What Ralph says is what I have on my '87. When I replaced the heater I remember drawing out a schematic of the circuit board, but cant find it now.
I attached a print from BB that details the wiring...
HTH, Joe
'87 PT40
Sedona, AZ
On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 9:27 PM, mbulriss
<"mbulriss@yahoo.com"> wrote:
Â
A friend with a 1986 PT40 called with a weird power problem to his hot water heater. He says the 110V power is routed through a relay in the 110 power line before the normal on/off switch. It appears the relay is one of those 12V switched relays which controls the 110 power. He has not been able to trace it to see where the 12V leads go to. The relay appears to be stuck open now and he gets no power to the hot water heater. If he by-passes the relay, and turns the on/off switch on, he gets power and hot water.
I do not remember having that set up on my 83, nor on my 91. Does anyone have a power setup like that for their hot water heater power? What is controlling the 12V power source? An over temperature switch/sensor somewhere? Or is this some prior owner's undocumented "upgrade"? He is concerned about just bypassing the relay without knowing what it is for.
Thanks for any ideas.
Mike Bulriss
1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan" (with hot water)
San Antonio, TX (balmy triple digits are us)
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