Jeff,
WOW! Thanks! I think this explanation should go in the files section. I
certainly plan to keep it. So the 3208 predates the V series. Was it also
2-cycle? I have read about several problems with the ZF transmission: Who
made it and how easy is it to get repaired.
Thanks again for this wealth of information,
Jimmy
-----Original Message-----
From:
WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Jeff Miller
Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2006 12:17 PM
To:
WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Better understanding
The 8V71 engine is a 71cu-in per cylinder V8, "71-series", not used
in the Wanderlodge line. More common in earlier buses. The 92-series
is so designated for 92cu-in displacement per cylinder, the 8V92TA
being a V8. All of the 71 and 92-series Detroit Diesels are 2-stroke.
The XX92TA is Turbocharged, and Supercharged. The supercharger (roots-
type blower mounted in the valley) is there to push out the exhaust
air and in the fresh at low RPMs, necessary for operation not really
power-enhancing, the Turbo adds power and high-altitude capabilities.
All 92-series engines are 2-stroke engines. Lots of power, good
engines in their time. What killed them in the marketplace was the
emissions, and also the fuel efficiency. The newer inline-6 4-stroke
was well proven and more efficient, met emission standards, and had a
much flatter power curve which gave it good low-rpm power for
climbing and accelerating. It also was an electronic engine which
mated better to the ATAC transmissions.
The 6V92TA was the PT engine (Pusher, Tag-axle) engine from '82
through '85 with the 5-speed mechanically shifted Allison
transmission. All but '82 were the 330hp "silver block", mechanically
injected.
In '86 Wanderlodge began to offer the optional 475-500hp 8V92TA with
the 4-speed electronically shifted ATEC (Allison Transmission
Electronic control) transmission on the 38' and 40', standard in '88
on the newly introduced WLWB (WanderLodge Wide Body) coach.
Around '91 (not sure) the 5-speed electronic transmission replaced
the electronic control 4-speed on the 8V92TA. In '88 the 8V92TA
became a DDEC 1 engine (Detroit Diesel Electronic Control) which
talked with the ATEC, in early '89 it went to the much more
serviceable DDECII and so-on.
'95 was the first year for the 470-500hp S-60 Detroit, available in
the 42' (became designated 43' in '97), the S-60 was installed in
both the 41' and 43' from '97 on, all s-60 engines have the Allison
HD-4060 six-speed double-overdrive electronic transmission.
Some Lxs have the optional S-60 engine, the standard engine was a
450hp Cummins.
The 3208 was first available in '76 in the FC coaches, it was a 210hp
(190hp California) 3208Na (Naturally aspirated, automatic
transmission) with the Allison MT-643 4-speed mechanically-shifted
automatic.
In '83 the 225hp 3208Ta "intercity" engine was installed
(Turbocharged, automatic transmission) with a re-tuned allison.
In late '83 and pretty much all replaced engines; the 250hp 3208Ta
with a re-tuned torque-converter, through '1986. The 3208Na was a
3050rpm engine (full-rated at 2800rpm) and was geared with 5.29:1
differential, the 3208Ta a 2800rpm (2650 full-rated) with taller
4.89:1 gears.
In '87 the FC (and the 89-92 SP (Single axle Pusher)) was re-powered
with the 300hp 3000rpm 3208 ATAAC (Air To Air Aftercooled), and with
the allison limited to 250hp, the chosen transmission was the 5-speed
overdrive electronic ZF 5-HP-500 transmission with again a 5.29:1
differential.
The 3208 is an under-tuned engine in this application, running up to
300hp, the same block is used for the 435hp marine engine and is very
reliable up through the 325hp marine engine.
The 3208 like the 92-series was replaced because the newer inline-6
electronic engines were cleaner-burning and more fuel efficient, and
because the electronic engines were better matched to the electronic
transmissions and controls. All good engines, will last a long time
if well maintained and not abused. Many failed 3208 and DD engines
expire after a long period of non-use, a change of hands, and off it
goes. I'd be willing to bet that the largest number of the failed
engines are due to a radiator / cooling system failure which could
have been prevented.
The BMC was a '94-'97 attempt to create yet another "entry-level"
Wanderlodge.
The Wanderlodge, through the '2002 Lx/Lxi was built from a pile of
steel in the BlueBird bus plant, the completed bus body/chassis
driven across the street to the Wanderlodge facility to become a
motorhome.
The BMC is significantly different in that it is a purchased Spartan
Mountain-Master chassis which BlueBird buys as a rolling-chassis, and
builds the steel-bodied BMC on top. In my mind it is more Wanderloge
than BlueBird, all in the name. The later BMCs, especially the 40'
450hp were equipped so close to the Wanderlodges of the same year to
be difficult to tell the difference looking rearward on the inside.
Head-and-shoulders above any plastic-disposable RV.
All Wanderlodges through the '2002 Lx/Lxi are steel-bodied over steel
one-piece wall-roof-wall bows. In '98 the Lxi became bonded instead
of riveted, the end-caps are fiberglass, but still steel walls and
roof (typically under an aluminum roof-deck and luggage-rack).
Good luck,
- Jeff Miller
in Holland, MI
--- In
WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "The Squires"
squires@...> wrote:
>
> All,
>
> I have been reading and studying the BB history and have a few
questions:
>
> 1) As I understand it, all of the xxV71 engines are "V" in
construction and
> are 2-cycle. Is that correct?
>
> 2) I believe that I would really want to stick with 4 cycle
engines. Is
> the Cat 3208 a 4 cycle? I know the DD 60 series is 4-cycle.
>
> 3) From the used ads, appears that the DD60 series did not show up
until
> mid-90s and they seemed to be matched with 6-speed Allison's. Are
this
> facts correct?
>
> 4) In the mid-90s, I see quite a few BMC models. From there
weight and
> engine combinations, these appear to be cheaper BB. Don't want to
insult
> anyone. Is their construction the same "bus" standard or closer to
the
> fiberglass/paper M/H?
>
> 5) Do the PT, LX, & LXI have the "bus" construction with metal
outsides?
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]