whynotam
04-10-2006, 02:47
From the for what it's worth department.
After speaking with one of the members of this forum about the value
of synthetic versus dino oil (thanks Bob) for my 1993 8V92 I made
the switch from straight Rotella 40W to Amsoil 15W40. The results
have been nothing short of amazing as oil consumption went from
around 1 quart per 250 miles to about 1 quart per 850 miles when I
am pushing it hard, to pretty much nothing when driving 55 or 60
MPH. The 40W used to get that diesel black color within a couple
hundred miles of an oil change whereas the synthetic oil is still
quite clear even after 3200 miles. The engine used to smoke some
when leaving a stop light but now has to be fully floored to put out
much smoke at all. The coolant is also not running quite as warm
thus the fan is seldom kicking in any more. More than likely fuel
consumption has also decreased but since I do not keep track I can't
vouch for that. It is quite obvious to me that something good has
taken place with my change from dino oil to synthetic. Next step is
to change the other lubricants as well. I am not trying to start a
war here but am just relaying my experience "for what it's worth".
Alvie Miller
1993 WLWB
Arthur IL.
--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "mbulriss" <mbulriss@...>
wrote:
>
> Thank you Tom. I would have put you in the non-believer camp.
Enjoy
> your Walmart Dino Oil.
>
> Mike Bulriss - I won the bet! I won the bet!
> 1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan"
> San Antonio, TX
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner
wrote:
> >
> > Mike you may be correct but I cannot find anywhere that ANY
> > syntheitcs are recommended for use in the Detroit diesel 2 cycle
> > engine. The statement in sect 3.7 that you quote " only
synthetic
> > oils which do not contain viscosity improver additives may be
used"
> > disqualifies all multigrade synthetics since viscosity improvers
are
> > used. I can buy Rotella T single grade at Walmarts and it is
easily
> availble.
> >
> > http://www.shell-lubricants.com/products...llaTSG.pdf
> > Tom Warner
> > Vernon Center,NY
> > 1982 FC35 (for sale soon for $35K or best offer)
> > 1985 PT 40
> >
> > At 02:04 PM 4/7/2006, you wrote:
> > >Ron,
> > >
> > >Re your comments:
> > >
> > > > The two stroke Detroits really shouldn't use synthetics,
> > > > unless someone starts producing a single weight synthetic.
> > > > All that I have seen are multi-grade and they won't hold up
under 5
> > > > psi oil pressure at idle.
> > >
> > >Just FYI, Detroit's current statement on synthetics is as
follows:
> > >3.7 SYNTHETIC OILS
> > >Synthetic oils should be used in Detroit Diesel engines
provided they
> > >are API licensed and meet the performance and chemical
requirements
> > >outlined in this publication. The oil should be a PGOS 93K214
approved
> > >product for use in EGR equipped engines. For two-stroke cycle
> > >engines, only synthetic oils which do not contain viscosity
improver
> > >additives may be used.
> > >
> > >I have been using Amsoil 15W-40 Heavy Duty Diesel and Marine
Oil in
> > >both my Birds. Generally speaking, "W"/multigrade oils have to
pass
> > >both the low viscosity and high viscosity tests. The Amsoil
oil does
> > >and passes all tests that are required for straight 40 oil -
and all
> > >the requirements for a straight 40 oil listed in the Detroit
> > >publication. My 8V and my old 6V both had approximately 15lbs
at idle
> > >on synthetic.
> > >
> > >You are right that the single weight synthetics are impossible
to find
> > >any more. The market wasn't big enough for manufacturers to
continue
> > >to make it. The new generation multi-weight synthetics perform
just
> > >as well as the straight weights.
> > >
> > >Generally, synthetic versus non-synthetic debates are split
into the
> > >true believer and non-believer camps. With the current prices,
the
> > >price delta is narrowing. If one believes that cheaper dino oil
> > >performs as well as synthetics, then that's their comfort
factor. If
> > >one believes that synthetics don't break down like dino oil,
reduce
> > >friction, which reduces heat, and are better at protecting an
> > >expensive investment, then that is what they will use. All the
rest
> > >is just rethoric that will convince neither party. Mark me
down as
> > >true believer/user since 1979.
> > >
> > >Mike Bulriss
> > >1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan" - full of Amsoil
> > >San Antonio, TX
> > >
> > >--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "ronmarabito2002"
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I agree mostly with what you say, but with a couple
exceptions.
> First
> > > > with engine oil: The two stroke Detroits really shouldn't
use
> > > > synthetics, unless someone starts producing a single weight
> synthetic.
> > > > All that I have seen are multi-grade and they won't hold up
under 5
> > > > psi oil pressure at idle.
> > > >
> > > > I use Transynd in my Allison because I have a transmission
retarder.
> > > > Since I drive a lot in the mountains, the synthetic holds up
better
> > > > with the heat stress that is created using the retarder. I
> agree with
> > > > natural fluids if that were not the case.
> > > >
> > > > R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner
> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Each of us has to make our own decisions relative to how
we will
> > > > > service our engines and transmissions, what kind and brand
of
> tires
> > > > > to use etc, etc etc, ad nauseum. But in my experience
> starting with
> > > > > High Fidelity in the 1950's many bought based on the hype
of
> > > > > manufacturers taunting the fantastic frequency repsonses
of their
> > > > > equipment. Of course the better the specifications the
higher the
> > > > > price. Problem is that many who bought the highest speced
> equipment
> > > > > and paid sky high prices for it, seldom used it and had no
ear to
> > > > > differentiate the difference. Yep I was one of those.
> > > > >
> > > > > And in my opinion this very closely relates to the use of
> synthetic
> > > > > motor oils and transmission fluids used in motorhomes that
are
> driven
> > > > > very few miles a year. If you notice on the Allison
> transmission site
> > > > > that was
> > > noted
> > >
>
<<http://tinyurl.com/qs3a9>http://tinyurl.com/qs3a9>http://tinyurl.co
m/qs3a9,
> > > > > and then go to Approved C4 fluids you will note that
Dextron 3
> is an
> > > > > approved fluid and meets all of Allisons specifications.
In other
> > > > > words it meets ALL of the Allison specifications..period,
as
> do over
> > > > > 700 other brands! But note that Allison now recommends
> changing the
> > > > > C4 specification transmission lubricants at 12,000 mile
> intervals or
> > > > > every 6 months which ever comes first. Isnt it strange that
> the over
> > > > > the previous 50 years or so truckers all over the world
never,ever
> > > > > followed this regimine and racked up in excess of 500,000
miles on
> > > > > them without a problem? Wonder how many Allison
transmissions in
> > > > > motorhome service have never had their fluid changed since
> > > > > manufacture? And note if you do use Transynd the
transmission
> fluid
> > > > > change interval is 75,000 miles or 36 months. We are not
going to
> > > > > hit the 75,000 mile in 3 years, at least I dont plan to, so
> every 3
> > > > > years I would have to change the transmission fluid after
> travelling
> > > > > approximately 15,000-20,000 miles.
> > > > >
> > > > > Now go to the list of approved Allison TES-295 approved
> transmission
> > > > > fluids, which is a severe duty extended drain interval
> transmission
> > > > > fluid. Note that Amsoil, that you have noted in
> > > > > http://www.syntheticwarehouse.com/drivet....htm#*NEW* is
NOT
> listed
> > > > > as an Allison TES-295 approved fluid.
> > > > >
> > > > > As I have noted many times previously todays engine oils
and
> > > > > transmission fluids meet or exceed any kind of service we
put our
> > > > > motorhomes thru. If you drive sensibly Dextron 3 for the
> transmission
> > > > > and good dino oil is fine for the diesel engine.
> > > > > tom warner
> > > > > Vernon center,NY
> > > > > 1982 FC35 (for sale soon)
> > > > > 1985 PT40
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > At 09:24 AM 4/6/2006, you wrote:
> > > > > >Bob,
> > > > > >
> > > > > >I'm no expert, but I am fortunate enough to have a long-
time
> friend
> > > > > >nearby that is an Allison Transmission Specialist, and
> services our
> > > > > >bus. On his professional recommendation, we changed out
the
> filters
> > > > > >and added TranSynd, synthetic fluid.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
><<http://www.allisontransmission.com/>http://www.allisontransmissio
> > > n.com/>http://www.allisontransmission.com/
> > > > >
><http://www.syntheticwarehouse.com/drivet....htm#*NEW*>h
> > > ttp://www.syntheticwarehouse.com/drivetr....htm#*NEW*
> > > > >
><http://tinyurl.com/qs3a9><http://tinyurl.com/qs3a9>http://tiny
> > > url.com/qs3a9
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Ron, No. California
> > > > > >85PT36
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Lawrence"
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Is it worth the expense ($8.00 a quart)and how long
does
> it last
> > > > > > > before needing rechanging?
> > > > > > > Should I just stay with the conventional stuff in
there now
> > > > (changing
> > > > > > > it out, of course).
> > > > > > > What think you?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Bob Lawrence
> > > > > > > 84 pt36
> > > > > > > Tacky Tacoma, Wa. with 556 days till fulltiming on the
road.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >----------
> > > > > >YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> > > > > >
> > > > > > * Visit your group
> > > > > >
> > >
> "<<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WanderlodgeForum>http://groups.yah
oo.com/group/WanderlodgeForum>WanderlodgeForum"
> > > > on the web.
> > > > > > *
> > > > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > > > *
> > > > > >
> > > >
> >
> >
> > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > *
> > > > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> > > > > >
> > >
>
<<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>Yahoo!
>
> > > Terms of Service.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >----------
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >----------
> > >YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> > >
> > > * Visit your group
> >
> "<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WanderlodgeForum>WanderlodgeForum"
> on the web.
> > > *
> > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > *
> > >
>
>
> > >
> > > *
> > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>Yahoo! Terms of Service.
> > >
> > >
> > >----------
> >
>
After speaking with one of the members of this forum about the value
of synthetic versus dino oil (thanks Bob) for my 1993 8V92 I made
the switch from straight Rotella 40W to Amsoil 15W40. The results
have been nothing short of amazing as oil consumption went from
around 1 quart per 250 miles to about 1 quart per 850 miles when I
am pushing it hard, to pretty much nothing when driving 55 or 60
MPH. The 40W used to get that diesel black color within a couple
hundred miles of an oil change whereas the synthetic oil is still
quite clear even after 3200 miles. The engine used to smoke some
when leaving a stop light but now has to be fully floored to put out
much smoke at all. The coolant is also not running quite as warm
thus the fan is seldom kicking in any more. More than likely fuel
consumption has also decreased but since I do not keep track I can't
vouch for that. It is quite obvious to me that something good has
taken place with my change from dino oil to synthetic. Next step is
to change the other lubricants as well. I am not trying to start a
war here but am just relaying my experience "for what it's worth".
Alvie Miller
1993 WLWB
Arthur IL.
--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "mbulriss" <mbulriss@...>
wrote:
>
> Thank you Tom. I would have put you in the non-believer camp.
Enjoy
> your Walmart Dino Oil.
>
> Mike Bulriss - I won the bet! I won the bet!
> 1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan"
> San Antonio, TX
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner
wrote:
> >
> > Mike you may be correct but I cannot find anywhere that ANY
> > syntheitcs are recommended for use in the Detroit diesel 2 cycle
> > engine. The statement in sect 3.7 that you quote " only
synthetic
> > oils which do not contain viscosity improver additives may be
used"
> > disqualifies all multigrade synthetics since viscosity improvers
are
> > used. I can buy Rotella T single grade at Walmarts and it is
easily
> availble.
> >
> > http://www.shell-lubricants.com/products...llaTSG.pdf
> > Tom Warner
> > Vernon Center,NY
> > 1982 FC35 (for sale soon for $35K or best offer)
> > 1985 PT 40
> >
> > At 02:04 PM 4/7/2006, you wrote:
> > >Ron,
> > >
> > >Re your comments:
> > >
> > > > The two stroke Detroits really shouldn't use synthetics,
> > > > unless someone starts producing a single weight synthetic.
> > > > All that I have seen are multi-grade and they won't hold up
under 5
> > > > psi oil pressure at idle.
> > >
> > >Just FYI, Detroit's current statement on synthetics is as
follows:
> > >3.7 SYNTHETIC OILS
> > >Synthetic oils should be used in Detroit Diesel engines
provided they
> > >are API licensed and meet the performance and chemical
requirements
> > >outlined in this publication. The oil should be a PGOS 93K214
approved
> > >product for use in EGR equipped engines. For two-stroke cycle
> > >engines, only synthetic oils which do not contain viscosity
improver
> > >additives may be used.
> > >
> > >I have been using Amsoil 15W-40 Heavy Duty Diesel and Marine
Oil in
> > >both my Birds. Generally speaking, "W"/multigrade oils have to
pass
> > >both the low viscosity and high viscosity tests. The Amsoil
oil does
> > >and passes all tests that are required for straight 40 oil -
and all
> > >the requirements for a straight 40 oil listed in the Detroit
> > >publication. My 8V and my old 6V both had approximately 15lbs
at idle
> > >on synthetic.
> > >
> > >You are right that the single weight synthetics are impossible
to find
> > >any more. The market wasn't big enough for manufacturers to
continue
> > >to make it. The new generation multi-weight synthetics perform
just
> > >as well as the straight weights.
> > >
> > >Generally, synthetic versus non-synthetic debates are split
into the
> > >true believer and non-believer camps. With the current prices,
the
> > >price delta is narrowing. If one believes that cheaper dino oil
> > >performs as well as synthetics, then that's their comfort
factor. If
> > >one believes that synthetics don't break down like dino oil,
reduce
> > >friction, which reduces heat, and are better at protecting an
> > >expensive investment, then that is what they will use. All the
rest
> > >is just rethoric that will convince neither party. Mark me
down as
> > >true believer/user since 1979.
> > >
> > >Mike Bulriss
> > >1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan" - full of Amsoil
> > >San Antonio, TX
> > >
> > >--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "ronmarabito2002"
> > >
> > > >
> > > > I agree mostly with what you say, but with a couple
exceptions.
> First
> > > > with engine oil: The two stroke Detroits really shouldn't
use
> > > > synthetics, unless someone starts producing a single weight
> synthetic.
> > > > All that I have seen are multi-grade and they won't hold up
under 5
> > > > psi oil pressure at idle.
> > > >
> > > > I use Transynd in my Allison because I have a transmission
retarder.
> > > > Since I drive a lot in the mountains, the synthetic holds up
better
> > > > with the heat stress that is created using the retarder. I
> agree with
> > > > natural fluids if that were not the case.
> > > >
> > > > R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner
> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Each of us has to make our own decisions relative to how
we will
> > > > > service our engines and transmissions, what kind and brand
of
> tires
> > > > > to use etc, etc etc, ad nauseum. But in my experience
> starting with
> > > > > High Fidelity in the 1950's many bought based on the hype
of
> > > > > manufacturers taunting the fantastic frequency repsonses
of their
> > > > > equipment. Of course the better the specifications the
higher the
> > > > > price. Problem is that many who bought the highest speced
> equipment
> > > > > and paid sky high prices for it, seldom used it and had no
ear to
> > > > > differentiate the difference. Yep I was one of those.
> > > > >
> > > > > And in my opinion this very closely relates to the use of
> synthetic
> > > > > motor oils and transmission fluids used in motorhomes that
are
> driven
> > > > > very few miles a year. If you notice on the Allison
> transmission site
> > > > > that was
> > > noted
> > >
>
<<http://tinyurl.com/qs3a9>http://tinyurl.com/qs3a9>http://tinyurl.co
m/qs3a9,
> > > > > and then go to Approved C4 fluids you will note that
Dextron 3
> is an
> > > > > approved fluid and meets all of Allisons specifications.
In other
> > > > > words it meets ALL of the Allison specifications..period,
as
> do over
> > > > > 700 other brands! But note that Allison now recommends
> changing the
> > > > > C4 specification transmission lubricants at 12,000 mile
> intervals or
> > > > > every 6 months which ever comes first. Isnt it strange that
> the over
> > > > > the previous 50 years or so truckers all over the world
never,ever
> > > > > followed this regimine and racked up in excess of 500,000
miles on
> > > > > them without a problem? Wonder how many Allison
transmissions in
> > > > > motorhome service have never had their fluid changed since
> > > > > manufacture? And note if you do use Transynd the
transmission
> fluid
> > > > > change interval is 75,000 miles or 36 months. We are not
going to
> > > > > hit the 75,000 mile in 3 years, at least I dont plan to, so
> every 3
> > > > > years I would have to change the transmission fluid after
> travelling
> > > > > approximately 15,000-20,000 miles.
> > > > >
> > > > > Now go to the list of approved Allison TES-295 approved
> transmission
> > > > > fluids, which is a severe duty extended drain interval
> transmission
> > > > > fluid. Note that Amsoil, that you have noted in
> > > > > http://www.syntheticwarehouse.com/drivet....htm#*NEW* is
NOT
> listed
> > > > > as an Allison TES-295 approved fluid.
> > > > >
> > > > > As I have noted many times previously todays engine oils
and
> > > > > transmission fluids meet or exceed any kind of service we
put our
> > > > > motorhomes thru. If you drive sensibly Dextron 3 for the
> transmission
> > > > > and good dino oil is fine for the diesel engine.
> > > > > tom warner
> > > > > Vernon center,NY
> > > > > 1982 FC35 (for sale soon)
> > > > > 1985 PT40
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > At 09:24 AM 4/6/2006, you wrote:
> > > > > >Bob,
> > > > > >
> > > > > >I'm no expert, but I am fortunate enough to have a long-
time
> friend
> > > > > >nearby that is an Allison Transmission Specialist, and
> services our
> > > > > >bus. On his professional recommendation, we changed out
the
> filters
> > > > > >and added TranSynd, synthetic fluid.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
><<http://www.allisontransmission.com/>http://www.allisontransmissio
> > > n.com/>http://www.allisontransmission.com/
> > > > >
><http://www.syntheticwarehouse.com/drivet....htm#*NEW*>h
> > > ttp://www.syntheticwarehouse.com/drivetr....htm#*NEW*
> > > > >
><http://tinyurl.com/qs3a9><http://tinyurl.com/qs3a9>http://tiny
> > > url.com/qs3a9
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Ron, No. California
> > > > > >85PT36
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Lawrence"
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Is it worth the expense ($8.00 a quart)and how long
does
> it last
> > > > > > > before needing rechanging?
> > > > > > > Should I just stay with the conventional stuff in
there now
> > > > (changing
> > > > > > > it out, of course).
> > > > > > > What think you?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Bob Lawrence
> > > > > > > 84 pt36
> > > > > > > Tacky Tacoma, Wa. with 556 days till fulltiming on the
road.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >----------
> > > > > >YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> > > > > >
> > > > > > * Visit your group
> > > > > >
> > >
> "<<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WanderlodgeForum>http://groups.yah
oo.com/group/WanderlodgeForum>WanderlodgeForum"
> > > > on the web.
> > > > > > *
> > > > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > > > *
> > > > > >
> > > >
> >
> >
> > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > *
> > > > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> > > > > >
> > >
>
<<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>Yahoo!
>
> > > Terms of Service.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >----------
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >----------
> > >YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> > >
> > > * Visit your group
> >
> "<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WanderlodgeForum>WanderlodgeForum"
> on the web.
> > > *
> > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > *
> > >
>
>
> > >
> > > *
> > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>Yahoo! Terms of Service.
> > >
> > >
> > >----------
> >
>