Wanderlodge Gurus - The Member Funded Wanderlodge Forum

Joe, you can crack the front injector nut. The priming handle is on the curb
side. if you operate that till the fuel comes out of that nut, you should be
able to start it- unless there is something else wrong. Is it cold where you
are? If it is you need to preheat before starting. Ernie-in cold montana


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Have a kohler gen that was working. Now I am trying to get ready to
leave for AZ and it won't start. Is their away that it lost it's
prime. and if so how do I prime it.
Thanks
Joe from IN 1984 1/2 PT 40

Joe,

I am tracing the same problem with my 83 PT right now.

First of all, make sure your genset start battery is really up to
snuff. A weak battery won't spin the diesel fast enough to ignite.
Have the battery load tested to be sure that it is good. Since you
are in IN and have seen some recent lower temps, this is a good first
check. Especially if the battery has not been on a charger.

Second, assuming you have the Perkins Diesel, is the push-pull fuel
staring solenoid (on the driver's side under the exhaust manifold)
engaging (retracting the rod) when you try to crank the engine? If
not, you can maually retract it to get the engine started.

If none of the above, then unfortunately you probably have an air leak
that has developed somewhere in the fuel delivery system. As with
yours, mine worked fine three or four weeks ago, then a cold front
came through and now the fuel system keeps getting air bound.
Something contracted somewhere in the cold. I have tightened all the
fuel system connections, put on new filters and o-rings, filled them
with fuel, and primed them again and again, all to no avail so far.
You can pump that little primer as Ernie suggested, but it is much
faster just to put a good battery charger on the battery and crank the
engine to prime it. Don't crank so long long at one time that you
burn up the starter! :^0

As far as priming goes, before you crack that first injector, make
sure the injector pump is full. There are two (5/16") fuel/air
bleeder screws on the side of it near the fuel intake line on the
back. If you remove the lower one and crank the engine, it will shoot
a stream of fuel about 5 feet when the injector pump primes itself.
Stop cranking, re-insert the bleeder screw loosely, crank again to
expell any air and re-tighten the bleeder screw while cranking. At
this point the Perkins may or may not fire, or you may have to finish
bleeding the injector(s) while cranking, as Ernie stated, to finish
bleeding it. If you are lucky, after you bleed the injector, and the
Perkins starts and continues running, you are done. If it dies again
after running a few seconds, you have an air leak somewhere in the
fuel lines (I am assuming here that the injector pump did prime itself
and thus is not bad). Now you have a real problem.

You will have to search for and find that air leak. That's where I am
at now. Could be a bad filter gasket, but since you have hopefully
checked/replaced them now, it is somewhere else. All those steel fuel
lines are flared at the ends and are prone to developing hair line
cracks in the flares due to all the vibrating (sometimes nearly
invisible cracks). This is real common on small tractors and bobcats
that use the Perkins diesel. Could be any one of the fuel lines. A
quick fix if you find a crack in one of the flares is to use some
flared ferrel inserts that they make for such fuel line repairs. A
good diesel shop should have an assortment of sizes. If there is no
cracked steel lines, then there could be a pinhole sucking air on the
fuel feed lines from the tank to the racor or from the racor to the
fuel distribution block on the back of the engine. Unfortunately, I
know of no good way to find the source except by manually searching.
I don't think one of those sonic sensors that work to find air leaks
will help on a suction problem unless it is pretty substantial. If you
can't get the engine running long enough to check, it won't help anyway.

Anybody got any other ideas for finding fuel air leakes???

Mike Bulriss
83 PT40 "Stagecoach" - For Sale
91 PT40 "Texas Minivan"
San Antonio, TX


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "mjzakowski"
<mjzakowski@j...> wrote:
>
> Have a kohler gen that was working. Now I am trying to get ready to
> leave for AZ and it won't start. Is their away that it lost it's
> prime. and if so how do I prime it.
> Thanks
> Joe from IN 1984 1/2 PT 40
>

*I DON'T WANT TO SCARE ANYONE NOW*...*I hope this is not the problem you
are having*!* If your generator controls work the same as ours*,
something to check is the voltage to the gen. control box. Our Bird had
similar problems as you have described. The gen. ran fine for months,
then became a hit/miss to get it started. Then it would not start/run at
all. I took the Bird to a generator specialty shop for testing. The
problem turned out to be the alternator (that creates the 110/220 power)
was not putting out voltage to the control box. That voltage is needed
to start/keep the gen. system running. All the alternator windings were
history, caused from a lack of frequent use. Our Bird got a new alternator.

*Again, I hope this is not the problem you are experiencing. Good luck.
*

Curt Sprenger 1987 PT38, Anaheim Hills, Calif.


>

Finding fuel leaks is a simple task if you have the right equipment..
The easiest way is to put some fluorescent dye in the diesel tank and
then scan the lines with a UV light. You can get the complete kit
that will find gas, oil, diesel fuel at :http://tinyurl.com/b4u4x

Tom Warner
1982 FC35
Vernon Center,NY


At 03:59 PM 10/31/2005, you wrote:
>Joe,
>
>I am tracing the same problem with my 83 PT right now.
>
>First of all, make sure your genset start battery is really up to
>snuff. A weak battery won't spin the diesel fast enough to ignite.
>Have the battery load tested to be sure that it is good. Since you
>are in IN and have seen some recent lower temps, this is a good first
>check. Especially if the battery has not been on a charger.
>
>Second, assuming you have the Perkins Diesel, is the push-pull fuel
>staring solenoid (on the driver's side under the exhaust manifold)
>engaging (retracting the rod) when you try to crank the engine? If
>not, you can maually retract it to get the engine started.
>
>If none of the above, then unfortunately you probably have an air leak
>that has developed somewhere in the fuel delivery system. As with
>yours, mine worked fine three or four weeks ago, then a cold front
>came through and now the fuel system keeps getting air bound.
>Something contracted somewhere in the cold. I have tightened all the
>fuel system connections, put on new filters and o-rings, filled them
>with fuel, and primed them again and again, all to no avail so far.
>You can pump that little primer as Ernie suggested, but it is much
>faster just to put a good battery charger on the battery and crank the
>engine to prime it. Don't crank so long long at one time that you
>burn up the starter! :^0
>
>As far as priming goes, before you crack that first injector, make
>sure the injector pump is full. There are two (5/16") fuel/air
>bleeder screws on the side of it near the fuel intake line on the
>back. If you remove the lower one and crank the engine, it will shoot
>a stream of fuel about 5 feet when the injector pump primes itself.
>Stop cranking, re-insert the bleeder screw loosely, crank again to
>expell any air and re-tighten the bleeder screw while cranking. At
>this point the Perkins may or may not fire, or you may have to finish
>bleeding the injector(s) while cranking, as Ernie stated, to finish
>bleeding it. If you are lucky, after you bleed the injector, and the
>Perkins starts and continues running, you are done. If it dies again
>after running a few seconds, you have an air leak somewhere in the
>fuel lines (I am assuming here that the injector pump did prime itself
>and thus is not bad). Now you have a real problem.
>
>You will have to search for and find that air leak. That's where I am
>at now. Could be a bad filter gasket, but since you have hopefully
>checked/replaced them now, it is somewhere else. All those steel fuel
>lines are flared at the ends and are prone to developing hair line
>cracks in the flares due to all the vibrating (sometimes nearly
>invisible cracks). This is real common on small tractors and bobcats
>that use the Perkins diesel. Could be any one of the fuel lines. A
>quick fix if you find a crack in one of the flares is to use some
>flared ferrel inserts that they make for such fuel line repairs. A
>good diesel shop should have an assortment of sizes. If there is no
>cracked steel lines, then there could be a pinhole sucking air on the
>fuel feed lines from the tank to the racor or from the racor to the
>fuel distribution block on the back of the engine. Unfortunately, I
>know of no good way to find the source except by manually searching.
>I don't think one of those sonic sensors that work to find air leaks
>will help on a suction problem unless it is pretty substantial. If you
>can't get the engine running long enough to check, it won't help anyway.
>
>Anybody got any other ideas for finding fuel air leakes???
>
>Mike Bulriss
>83 PT40 "Stagecoach" - For Sale
>91 PT40 "Texas Minivan"
>San Antonio, TX
>
>
>--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "mjzakowski"
><mjzakowski@j...> wrote:
> >
> > Have a kohler gen that was working. Now I am trying to get ready to
> > leave for AZ and it won't start. Is their away that it lost it's
> > prime. and if so how do I prime it.
> > Thanks
> > Joe from IN 1984 1/2 PT 40
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Ah yes, excellent point Curt. I fixated on fuel in response to
Ernie's comment and my current problems, but you are absolutely right.
As I recall, they will not run at all if that circuit isn't providing
enough "exciter" voltage? Ralph? Jump right in here. Did I remember
that right from the Lone Star Birds class?

Mike Bulriss
83 PT40 "Stagecoach" - For Sale
91 PT40 "Texas Minivan"
San Antonio, TX


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Curt Sprenger
wrote:
>
> *I DON'T WANT TO SCARE ANYONE NOW*...*I hope this is not the problem
you
> are having*!* If your generator controls work the same as ours*,
> something to check is the voltage to the gen. control box. Our Bird
had
> similar problems as you have described. The gen. ran fine for months,
> then became a hit/miss to get it started. Then it would not
start/run at
> all. I took the Bird to a generator specialty shop for testing. The
> problem turned out to be the alternator (that creates the 110/220
power)
> was not putting out voltage to the control box. That voltage is needed
> to start/keep the gen. system running. All the alternator windings were
> history, caused from a lack of frequent use. Our Bird got a new
alternator.
>
> *Again, I hope this is not the problem you are experiencing. Good luck.
> *
>
> Curt Sprenger 1987 PT38, Anaheim Hills, Calif.
>
>
> >
>

Hello Mike, Curt and everyone:

It is true about the "exciter" voltage. The field begins to build through
the 12 VDC supplied by the battery source. Then as the field gains higher
strength, the C relay closes by the 120 VAC between leg one and neutral and
drops out the battery and the quadrature windings takes over to supply the
12 VDC on up to 14 to 18 VDC to maintain the filed. Both the battery and
quadrature voltage is supplied through the slip rings and the brushes back
to the voltage regulator, then the voltage regulator regulates the out put
voltage and controls the speed of 1800 RPM through another circuit.

In systems with the alternator, it serves a slightly different different
function by maintaining the charge on the gen set battery and help to
maintain the integrity of the field voltage, though I am not fully versed
on the systems with the alternator and exactly what circuits it serves.

If your brushes are not centered on the slip rings, or the slip rings are
breaking down or the solder joints are weak from the slip rings to the
rotor, that can and does affect the DC voltage build up to continue to
build the field controlled by the regulator.

Safe travels,

Ralph and Charolette Fullenwider
Ralph's RV Solutions, Duncan, Oklahoma
http://home.swbell.net/rlf47/index.htm

At 11:01 PM 10/31/2005 +0000, you wrote:
>Ah yes, excellent point Curt. I fixated on fuel in response to
>Ernie's comment and my current problems, but you are absolutely right.
> As I recall, they will not run at all if that circuit isn't providing
>enough "exciter" voltage? Ralph? Jump right in here. Did I remember
>that right from the Lone Star Birds class?
>
>Mike Bulriss
>83 PT40 "Stagecoach" - For Sale
>91 PT40 "Texas Minivan"
>San Antonio, TX
>
>
>--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Curt Sprenger
> wrote:
> >
> > *I DON'T WANT TO SCARE ANYONE NOW*...*I hope this is not the problem
>you
> > are having*!* If your generator controls work the same as ours*,
> > something to check is the voltage to the gen. control box. Our Bird
>had
> > similar problems as you have described. The gen. ran fine for months,
> > then became a hit/miss to get it started. Then it would not
>start/run at
> > all. I took the Bird to a generator specialty shop for testing. The
> > problem turned out to be the alternator (that creates the 110/220
>power)
> > was not putting out voltage to the control box. That voltage is needed
> > to start/keep the gen. system running. All the alternator windings were
> > history, caused from a lack of frequent use. Our Bird got a new
>alternator.
> >
> > *Again, I hope this is not the problem you are experiencing. Good luck.
> > *
> >
> > Curt Sprenger 1987 PT38, Anaheim Hills, Calif.
> >
> >
> > >
>