Wanderlodge Gurus - The Member Funded Wanderlodge Forum

(03-03-2013 00:28)dentmac Wrote: [ -> ]I will reply later (after Davids blessing). On the road now.

Hi Ross,

By all means, go ahead. No need to ask for permission (but thanks ). We strive for free and open dialogue here at WaGu, unencumbered by business and advertising sponsorship and its associated conflicts-of-interest. I don't know which forum category is best, perhaps "Wanderlodge History" - that's up to you. Thanks!

I guess what i would ask the forum is this .

when we are comparing the 450 Prototype to the 450 Production , Is it like comparing a LXI to a LX ?

are the opporational systems the same as a production coach ?

or were there structual issues that needed to be corrected at a later date ?

with my wife and I in the market for a 450 LXI 3 slide coach we wish to be as well informed as possible .

I beleive this forum was built with this in mind .that we could discuss openly the good and bad of our coaches .

Thank you

(03-03-2013 12:47)al perna Wrote: [ -> ]I believe this forum was built with this in mind that we could discuss openly the good and bad of our coaches.

You bet Al. Cue the ukuleles!

Al, maybe we'll get to the bottom of the differences between this prototype version and the 56 production M450s. I wouldn't sweat it though cause the differences in equipment are probably minor. The M450 likely evolved with each and every one built. My SWAG is that differences between a prototype and the first production M450 are likely restricted to component placement and access, and I'll bet the differences between number (n) and number (n+1) are similar.

Allan Barbee can tell you if there are any significant differences. I have his number somewhere if you want it?

Al,

Here's Allan Barbee's contact info:

ARB Consulting Services
Barnesville, GA 30204
email: arbhelp@outlook.com
phone: 404-416-1543

That's a great write-up Rich. I think part of the problem is that the general community doesn't have a window into the operation/service/maintenance of an M450. The bulk of the M450 owners communicate via a private mailing list. It's hard for us potential wanabee's to get a good hold on things unless folks are willing to share problems, solutions, fixes, etc in an open forum setting. There are a handful of owners, (you, Hish, James, and a few others) who buck the trend, and in time this list will grow, but it could grow faster, and I think to the benefit of the M450 community, sales, values, and satisfaction!

Al,
Rich owned three birds and in my opinion, summarized very nicely the big picture of both pro's and con's. The only other thing I have to add is be aware, the higher up the food chain you go, the more you will spend to fix and replace things:
Example: inverter/charger for my bus 700-1200, m450 3-5 k.
Ask an m450 owner how hard it is to change the air dryer
cartridge or how much labor is involved
Got that 8x8 trap door on the curb side out back on an m450?
No, you're disassembling the alternator assemblies to get the
air filter out
Got a diagnostic computer for all the computer controlled wiring
systems to diagnosis a system failure. IF not, were you ever a
mainframe guy who could code troubleshoot his own m450 by
writing diagnostic code to monitor it? Very much like VMspec
and Ray Davis did, write to the user supplied interface.
I am NOT slamming the m450, I'm trying to point out the higher up the food chain you go, the more sophisticated you need to be as a diagnostician to save money on repairs or you new best tool is American Express Black! And it starts at 100 bucks an hour!

Also, and you probably already know this in this current age of social media.. when you disparage products in a public place, you paint a TARGET on your back and NO ONE likes that because it illicit s emotional responses, and when it does that, BAD things happen and YOU become the target! PERIOD!

(03-04-2013 12:30)davidmbrady Wrote: [ -> ]That's a great write-up Rich. I think part of the problem is that the general community doesn't have a window into the operation/service/maintenance of an M450. The bulk of the M450 owners communicate via a private mailing list. It's hard for us potential wanabee's to get a good hold on things unless folks are willing to share problems, solutions, fixes, etc in an open forum setting. There are a handful of owners, (you, Hish, James, and a few others) who buck the trend, and in time this list will grow, but it could grow faster, and I think to the benefit of the M450 community, sales, values, and satisfaction!

Couldn't agree more. When they initially did that years ago, they torqued me off so bad I gave up trying to upgrade to one.......lost potential customers like me, and others I'm sure, which contributed to the rapid depreciation, IMHO..... The guys Like Hish who speak up, deserve a metal and "flack jacket"!!!!!!

(03-04-2013 12:55)Bird Owner Wrote: [ -> ]Pete, I absolutely agree. The more complicated the systems are the more time (read $$$) it takes to fix or maintain. Only the owner can decide whether the new technologies are worthwhile. I was horrified about the Multiplex wiring because it was new to me. Now, reprogramming switches and functions are "old hat" and changing switch "locations" etc., are not only possible but easy. I hear tell that an iPad interface is not too far off. Controlling any light or shades, etc from an iPad will not be necessary at all but will be convenient and fun.

One note though: I had my air cleaner changed on the M450 at Coachcraft by MacDonald last fall. No alternator removal necessary and I don't have the trap door. (Some M450's do.) They replaced it in short order, did need two guys and a 2x4 about 4' long to pry it into place. Again,this backs up the original point of this thread about models "evolving". The air dryer is another story, I hear 6-8 hours. We often joke about Blue Bird's motto; "Make no two the same" !!!!!!!!!!!

RICH YUP NO TWO alike!!!!!!!!! ROTFLMHO...... I can still hear the 2005 Canadian owner "griping" his head off at me while we were in the ole nest and Earl was fetching him a door to install in his! I was next in line to buy parts from Earl......boy I miss those days! And no fair you CHEAT! I SAW that deskside built in to your 99....... that qualifies you as a more sophisticated diagnostician!!!!!!

(03-04-2013 13:02)pgchin Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-04-2013 12:55)Bird Owner Wrote: [ -> ]Pete, I absolutely agree. The more complicated the systems are the more time (read $$$) it takes to fix or maintain. Only the owner can decide whether the new technologies are worthwhile. I was horrified about the Multiplex wiring because it was new to me. Now, reprogramming switches and functions are "old hat" and changing switch "locations" etc., are not only possible but easy. I hear tell that an iPad interface is not too far off. Controlling any light or shades, etc from an iPad will not be necessary at all but will be convenient and fun.

One note though: I had my air cleaner changed on the M450 at Coachcraft by MacDonald last fall. No alternator removal necessary and I don't have the trap door. (Some M450's do.) They replaced it in short order, did need two guys and a 2x4 about 4' long to pry it into place. Again,this backs up the original point of this thread about models "evolving". The air dryer is another story, I hear 6-8 hours. We often joke about Blue Bird's motto; "Make no two the same" !!!!!!!!!!!

RICH YUP NO TWO alike!!!!!!!!! ROTFLMHO...... I can still hear the 2005 Canadian owner "griping" his head off at me while we were in the ole nest and Earl was fetching him a door to install in his! I was next in line to buy parts from Earl......boy I miss those days! And no fair you CHEAT! I SAW that deskside built in to your 99....... that qualifies you as a more sophisticated diagnostician!!!!!!

Hi Pete
I just added a grease fitting to the front axel ball joint that the BB did not have on our M450. This addition would allow me to improve the durability of the ball joint.
Also on the trip to the Flywheeler last weekend I review a front ball join that Jim Brookshire took apart, I believe the ball joint can be rebuilt without major expanse of buying a $1280.00 ball joint from Meritor.
Changing and reprogramming the switches on our M450 is a piece of cake, I have the tools to do that as well, and will offer to help anyone in need to program their switch.
Hish and Sue Amaral